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Coventry's origins

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Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
91 of 114  Wed 16th Jun 2021 11:21am  

Leofric and Godiva rebuilt the old nunnery in 1043. They placed an abbot and twenty-four monks of the Benedictine order, enriched the very walls with gold and silver, endowed it with half the town and twenty-four manors - all this they did with the advice of King Edward the Confessor and the reigning Pope. The pious founders were buried, according to custom of the times, in the porches - for the distasteful, custom of church, interment. The first abbot was Leofric, but that dignity was of short duration, for the see of Lichfield to Coventry in 1095, the office was suppressed, the bishop in such cases always being esteemed, supreme of the house. In his stead a prior was appointed, without derogating the honour of the house, for the priors were barons in parliament, as were the abbots. This first prelate was more attracted to the wealth of the house than by spiritual call, for they scraped from a single beam 500 marks worth of silver, in order to carry on the intrigue at Rome against the poor monks. The pope reduced them to such short poverty that they were depressed spirits, discouraged all sorts of knowledge, and in short dejected. This was a prelude to greater misfortunes. Towards the end of the century, a Norman became bishop who soon became at odds with the monks. In a synod before the high altar, doubtless about some high provocation, they broke his head with the holy cross. This complaint went to Rome. The Pope dealt with it, expelled the ancient inhabitants, monks, and replaced them with a set of secular cannons, the monks now driven into the wide world. At this time, Thomas, a monk of Coventry, was in Rome, fighting the cause of his brother monks (there's a whole lot I have of the cause, I'll shorten it). Pope Innocent III replaced all their privileges, increased them in atonement, beyond all reason.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
92 of 114  Thu 17th Jun 2021 1:55pm  

In the small church in the priory there was an image of the VirginMary ordained with a gold chain and enriched with gems, bestowed by Godiva on her death-bed. Beside this was an arm of St Augustine, which the Archbishop of Canterbury had bought from the Pope at Rome for a hundred talents of silver and one talent of gold, and given to the church. But this didn't prevent Henry III from destroying the priory and the church, and throwing out the monks. Little remained of the church, but it became a private house and part palace. The last prior was Thomas Canfell, who was made to surrender the house, on the pain of death. The site was then granted to John Combes and Richard Stansfield, who had worked for monastic government for many years. It was then sold for its materials in 1651, for the sum of 100 guineas. Coventry Cathedral had the most beautiful steeple in Europe, its sides with saintly images, an octagon rising out of it and that lengthened into an elegant spire. Every part in proportion, that Christopher Wren spoke of it as a masterpiece of architecture. The outside extremely handsome, the inside light and lofty, consisting of a body of two aisles, divided by four rows of high and airy pillars and arches. The height of the steeple and length of the church three hundred and three feet, the width one hundred feet and four inches. Trinity was a chapel to the monks in King Stephen's time, but it fell to the dissolution and the crown. Trinity and St John's formed the parishes in those days. Its beautiful steeple was begun in the reign of Edward III in 1372 by two brothers, Adam and William Bota at their own expense, £100 per annum. It took more than twenty years but its beauty was lost because of it being close to St Michael's. Most was built in Henry VI's time, he had a soft spot for Coventry.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Rob Orland
Historic Coventry
93 of 114  Fri 18th Jun 2021 10:01am  

I see you've read Thomas Pennant's "The Journey from Chester to London", Kaga! I was intrigued by a certain coincidence in his story, that in 1372 by two brothers, Adam and William Bota built the spire of Holy Trinity.... for £100 per year..... while meanwhile, a few yards away, in 1373 brothers William and Adam Botoner started building the tower of St. Michael's, for £100 per year! Two pairs of benevolent and similarly named brothers in Coventry, at the same time, paying exactly the same amount??? Or did Pennant get his history mixed up? Personally I don't believe in such huge coincidences, which sadly makes anything else we read by Pennant potentially unsound.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
94 of 114  Fri 18th Jun 2021 10:17am  

Two parliaments were held in Coventry, the first in 1404 by Henry IV which was Parliamentum Indoctorum, by its investary against the clergy, in the great chamber of the priory. The second, 1459 Parliamentum Diabolicum, by reason of a multitude of attainers passed against RIchard, Duke of York and his attendants in the chapter house of the priory. St Mary's Hall was built in the beginning of the reign of Henry VI. The entrance, beneath which was a large gateway, over which was the figures of the King and Queen sitting, probably Henry and Margaret. Within the building the room had in the upper end a semi-circular window, divided into nine parts, elegantly painted windows of several of our monarchs with their coats of arms and ornaments, but some of the windows were lost years ago. Those on the other side were designed to represent some of our great nobility who honoured this hall with their presence as brothers and sisters of the guild, for whose use this hall was founded. This had been the guild of St Katherine, established by certain citizens of Coventry in 1343 by licence of Edward III, after which it was used by those of the Holy Trinity, Our Lady and St John the Baptist.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Helen F
Warrington
95 of 114  Fri 18th Jun 2021 10:47am  

On 18th Jun 2021 10:01am, Rob Orland said: I see you've read Thomas Pennant's "The Journey from Chester to London", Kaga! ... Or did Pennant get his history mixed up? Personally I don't believe in such huge coincidences, which sadly makes anything else we read by Pennant potentially unsound.
Ah, thanks for that link Rob. Thumbs up I have heard about it but never found a copy. It looks like it suffers from some hearsay and is a good example of how older references are not necessarily better than newer ones. Old books and images can be superior if they deal with their own time and shouldn't be dismissed if they get the other stuff wrong. The trick is working out which is true.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
96 of 114  Fri 18th Jun 2021 5:44pm  

Hi Rob, I believe you were answering my previous post. Rob, of course there was no two pairs of brothers. Bota as I put was a fault in the re-print, should have read Botoners, so I put Bota founders and builders, but as you had told me Botoners were not the founders, I thought I had the name wrong. I believe he had most things right. Yes, some was hearsay, but hearsay of the day, or closer than we are today.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Helen F
Warrington
97 of 114  Sat 19th Jun 2021 9:54am  

Interesting that Pennant praises Mr Henry Beighton. Our discussion about the cross persuaded me to buy a copy of his etching. I now have 2 of his drawings and a copy from an old book of a third. The early date of them, plus his attention to detail, makes them very useful.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
98 of 114  Mon 21st Jun 2021 10:17am  

Rob, Somewhere you said "Kaga, I see you've caught up with Pennant then". Rob, I don't think it's the same book, mine was the orignal, bought in Coventry in 1956, I think yours is a recent re-print, a damaged book that has many words missing, and the word Bota was originally Bottommoly. You thought Pennant wasn't reliable, but I did a lot of travelling in the fifties as we had no such thing as the internet to verify what he said. Now most is on the internet, so why do you have doubts? At the same time, why do they print from a damaged book, is there only one copy left? He also wrote in the old style, where the letter 'F' replaced the letter 'S'.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Rob Orland
Historic Coventry
99 of 114  Mon 21st Jun 2021 10:53am  

Kaga, my apologies about this. I had been caught out by the misleading layout of the book. Below is a picture of it, which will hopefully help you to understand why I made this mistake - the page heading clearly stating "Trinity Church", but the text below still belonging to the remainder of the previous chapter, which was indeed St. Michael's church. The quote I copied before was from the online transcription, which was poor and failed to get "Botener" [sic] correct. Given that, I have no reason to currently doubt Pennant's accuracy about this.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
100 of 114  Mon 21st Jun 2021 1:22pm  

Rob, no problem.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
101 of 114  Tue 22nd Jun 2021 5:09am  

I thought it rather interesting to see on my parents' marriage certificate, they were married in The Parish Church of Holy Trinity in the counties of Coventry & Warwick (1936) and officiated by Curate Delanoy Saberton. I think times have changed.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Kaga simpson
Peacehaven, East Sussex
Thread starter
102 of 114  Thu 24th Jun 2021 4:58pm  

In 1780, London experienced the worst riots, the death toll around 1000, similar riots in all major cities including Coventry. It was about the Pope, and his religion, but the public meant all Catholics. People's houses were attacked if they were known as Popery as was called (RC). The law in England was if anyone or a priest taught catholic religion he could get life sentence. Bells of Catholic Churches could not be rung, nuns, priests, monks could not lawfully be worn in the streets. It took six years to get it repealed.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
JayC
Coventry
103 of 114  Thu 24th Jun 2021 11:10pm  

I don't think there are any recordings of any Saxon person being called "Cofa" but apparently cofa means cove in old English which can be a small sheltered bay in the shoreline of a sea, river, or lake. Coventry city centre was originally the site of a large lake called the "Babbu Lacu" so could this be the origin of Coventry's name? Just a thought.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
Helen F
Warrington
104 of 114  Fri 25th Jun 2021 11:41am  

Interesting theory Jay. I fear it is a question that cannot be answered.
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins
belushi
coventry
105 of 114  Fri 25th Jun 2021 12:02pm  

But probably more plausible than Coventry being named after a person about which nothing is known. Except he had a tree, apparently Wink
Local History and Heritage - Coventry's origins

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