Alfred Herbert Ltd

My very first job from leaving school was at Alfred Herbert's Ltd. in 1955 in the cost office. I remember being interviewed by a Mr. Wilkinson. That was at a time when Herbert's machine tools were shipped all over the world. I wonder what went wrong for them to go under. A multitude of factors I can well imagine.

Hebert's probably developed NC/CNC lathes too late and were unable to compete with US/Japanese models. The company probably also, like a lot of UK firms, suffered from lack of investment. The company also switched its production lines to a 'cell' based model after AH died and it was a bit of a disaster and led to loss of customers as they could not deliver products. The government had to step in and save the firm in the 1970s (along with everything else!) before it was liquidated when the government stopped subsidising it when the Tories came into power.

A tragic story indeed effecting the lives and livelihoods of so many people.The demise set in after AH's passing so no big surprise there. I cannot image Sir Alfred allowing this if he had been at the helm. Probably a lot of 'degreed' know nothings wishing to sweep away the past and not capable, or willing, to take the advice of seasoned employees. Rob Orland, of HCF, informed that an Amazon distribution building now stands on the grounds once occupied by Jaguar Cars! AH and William Lyons must be fit to be tied! Same sad story at many levels here in the US. Detroit only interested in pushing out gas guzzlers brought about the downfall of GM and Chrysler under the Obama administration and had to be bailed out per 'corporate welfare'! This let Honda and Toyota get a real foothold in the States, both never looking back. I work in photoshop on various projects and attached a medieval image I created on the Welcome to the Historic Coventry Forum thread Thank you. Edited by Midland Red, 19th Oct 2019 8:36 am (Link to medieval image posting inserted)

A lot of 'degreed' know nothings? I have a degree, and have no wish to sweep away 'the past', whatever that means. This bitterness some people have against those of us who are educated is astonishing. Bear in mind that most of the Internet that you are using to spread your narrow minded-ness was created and programmed by 'degreed' know nothings. It's more likely the problem was the refusal of old companies to change over to leaner manufacturing techniques and embrace new technology that lead to their downfall. In order to build CNC/NC lathes Herbert's had to employed 'degreed' know nothings to develop the embedded software for their machines.

You make a good point flapdoodle, and it would be unfair if it were a sweeping comment on everyone who's ever gained a degree. I don't think 17COV145 meant to imply that everyone with a degree was a "know nothing" though, and in his defence (for the sake of balance) I often saw evidence where I used to work to support his comment. Occasionally a new manager would appear, straight into the role without having first come up "through the ranks" - therefore with no prior experience of the roles of those under him. Some, no doubt, would have had degrees in management, but many showed no common sense, so made decisions that might have looked good on paper, but could never work in the real world. They would arrange a department in a way that probably seemed very efficient plotted out on graph-paper, but was totally unergonomic in reality, with no space to get the to rear of a bench to plug things in, etc. etc. Many of the degreed engineers I worked with (not all, one or two were very good) had far less skill in diagnosing faults than those who had served apprenticeships. It was not necessarily the fault of the engineer, but possibly the lack of a good all-round education at university, with too much stress being placed upon academic ability rather than real-world experience. Again, for the sake of balance, a few degreed engineers were extremely good, but unfortunately tended to be the exception, not the rule.

Rob, There was a very strong rumour in Coventry that the destruction of the Cathedral upset Alfred more than most. I believe he offered a great deal of money to its re-build - that was declined, and from then on he seemed to go downhill. But as I say, it was strong talk in certain circles so whether it was true or not I do not know, but it was Coventry.

I had an interview for an apprenticeship with Alfred Herbert in 1974 (my dad was an employee at Edgwick from the early 60's through to the late 70's). The interview was held on a Saturday morning and was conducted by two fairly elderly gentlemen clad in immaculate white "coveralls". I don't recall them asking anything "technical" - but I do remember them asking "What river flows through Coventry?" (My application form clearly showed that I had been educated in Nuneaton!) Contrast the above with the apprenticeship interview at Chrysler. This comprised a series of test papers covering basic Maths and Mechanics. Fortunately, in light of subsequent events for both of the above companies, I was offered and accepted an apprenticeship with a "small" engineering company in Coventry. This was the beginning of a career as an engineer (at all levels) that lasted almost 31 years.

Perhaps I was a bit sweeping in my remarks. For your information I emigrated to the USA per my engineering/metallurgical skills green card issued by the US Embassy in London. In the USA I have witnessed major mistakes made by 'engineers'. The premise being that they had 'degrees' even though they majored in something totally irrelevant to their positions and technical requirements of their positions. Sadly the student debt is staggering in this country a lot of them Pershing degrees in areas where the opportunities are very limited. Truly, they would, perhaps, be better equipped for the world persuing a trade/skill such as an electrician, plumber or auto mechanic. What did I start!!

I do agree with flapdoodle, I worked at Herberts from 66 for just under 10 years. I recall the rushed effort trying to play catch up with NC machines. For a while I was transferred to the test bay (which for an apprentice was always a good gig) they were testing the 2M and 3M plugboard machines, my easy job was a nightmare as oil leaks were everywhere and a lot of the fittings were buried in the castings meaning to fix half the machine had to come apart. About 2 years later we went on a service call to a factory in Northern England to fix a 5A auto the shop was pretty much all Herbert machines, I noticed they had a 2M lathe, after fixing the 5A, I got talking to the shop foreman and asked him how he liked his 2M lathe. His comment was never worked right from day 1 and they could not even use it.

It seems strange now but at the time I worked at Wickmans making machine tools, there were more Herbert capstans and banks of drills than any other machine. The main factory had 2D's, 5's and 9B'S. There was even a bar feed 2D in the training school. Did Herberts make any Radial Drilling machines?

Yes, have a look at 'herbert drill' on ebay for example.

Hi, they are pillar drills. Asquith made both 4ft and 8ft radial arm drills. Never seen a Herbert one

There is an advert on ebay: It depicts an antique advert from 1909 for an 'Alfred Herbert Ltd; Radial Drill' (the advert is for sale at £10.95). Admittedly, it doesn't look much like an 'Asquith' et al. A search for 'Images' does bring up some AH 'badged' radial drills, but these are clearly 'Archdale' machines?