Spon Street

Hi, I'm new, just joined. Our family lived at 106 Spon End, at the time I was born. It belonged to my widowed granny and it was a little tiny sweet shop. There was just a big open space to the left, a bomb had taken down the PUNCH BOWL pub and a meat packing company next door. I'm really impressed with the amount of knowledge members have of old Coventry. I haven't managed to read through everything yet as there is so much! I'm really interested in Coventry of the 1700's and would like to ask a question. Does anyone know where the DUBLIN CASTLE pub was situated in Spon Street. I think it was on the corner of Crow Lane and maybe changed name to the MECHANIC ARMS although the FOUNTAIN pub was also around there. Are there any drawings of this end of Crow Lane?

Hello moriarty, and welcome to our friendly forum And what an interesting question you've posed - it'll be interesting to see what responses it generates Looking at Real Ale Rambles, I'm intrigued to read here the name "Newcomb" as licensee - I wonder if that's where the name of the yard discussed in this thread over the last few days comes from?

Hi Moriarty welcome to Rob's fantastic site and its lovely people. The Dublin Castle is a new name to me but according to the Real Ale Rambles it was also known as the Cross Guns. Dublin Castle. As a strange co-incidence it says "After the death of the licensee, Thomas Newcomb in 1773 it became the CROSS GUNS. " There are several pubs near Crow Lane and drinking places popped up on a regular basis or just moved. Could the pub have fronted Newcomb's Yard? Nearby there was the Watchmaker's Arms on the west of Crow Lane. To the East was the Mechanic's Arms, also known as the Fountain. The Real Ale Ramble site is a mine of information, although the photos are not always of the pub mentioned. The map below is after Crow Lane was widened and the Watchmaker's Arms became the corner building. The best picture of the area is at a site called Fourtoes (pre road widening) Please visit the Fourtoes site for more images of the area. The image above from the same site zooms in on the Crow Lane area (to the right behind the houses). It looks roughly east. The Watchmaker's Arms is jettied and the 4th building from the right with the white render and the sign. The Fountain was also a jettied, medieval building to the right of the lamp post directly below the spire. It's sandwiched between the tall white buildings and the tall brick building.

I wonder if this could be Thomas? I found this Last Will and Testament document on a family history site. In the Name of God Amen. I Thomas Newcomb of the city of Coventry Victualler being of sound mind memory and understanding but considering the uncertainty of this transitory life Do make this my last will and testament in manner following that is to say. First I desire that all my just debts, my Funeral Expenses and my expenses of proving this my will may be paid and discharged by my Executrix herein after named I Give and bequeath unto my Brother Joseph Newcomb the Sum of one shillings I give and bequeath unto my Sister Elisabeth Newcomb and to my sister Ann Newcomb the Sum of One shilling each which said Legacies may be paid to my Brother Joseph and Sisters Elisabeth and Ann by my Executrix within twelve Months next after my decease. I give and bequeath unto my Dear wife Eleanor Newcomb All my Household Goods Household stuff, Plate, Rings, Watch, my ready money, All my wearing Apparel both Linen and Woollen and all and singular my Personal Estate be it of what nature or kindsoever To and for her own use and Benefit forever. And Lastly I do hereby nominate and appoint my said wife Sole Executrix of this my last Will and Testament hereby revoking and making void all former Will or Will by me at any time heretofore made. In Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and Seal this twenty fourth day of October in the year of our Lord One Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy One. Signed sealed published and declared by the above named Thomas Newcomb as and for his last Will and Testament in the Presence of us who have hereunto subscribed our Names as Witnesses in the Presence of the said Testator and in the Presence of each other. Thomas Taylor Fra. Cotton John Taylor

Well done I love how all this stuff links up. More info from Real Ale Rambles In 1770 a Birmingham gunsmith acquired a public house at the corner of Bayley Lane and Hay Lane known as the DOG AND DUCK. He renamed it the CROSS GUNS. In 1773 he moved to Spon Street.

Excellent. Real Ale Rambles is excellent too. A very good research resource.

Another 'co-incidence' a John (or Joseph) Taylor was registered as a victualler at the Fountain in 1851 (formerly a beer house). Prior to that he was a watch maker but the Real Ale Rambles site seems to suggest that in 1841 he is at the same address. Brewers were often women, so maybe his wife ran the alehouse prior to that? Too young to have been the John named as testator to Thomas Newcomb's will but could easily be related. The two families (Newcomb and Taylor) look like they were good friends or business partners. Was Newcomb's a watch making business? What was the name of the gun smith from Birmingham?

Higgins gunsmith Brilliant, many thanks for your help, I must admit I've been very lazy and haven't looked up my records from 15 years ago, I've now started to and they are a bit scattered Anyway plough on - I've looked at that wet photo plate loads of times and couldn't locate the area, but you have explained it, I can now see Crow Lane and the DUBLIN CASTLE, is that the old Windmill pub in the distance! I also note the two dotted rectangles on the map post 301 I should think they are the footings of Vales second watch factory So I now have a time line - Benj Vale ran the Dublin Castle, corner Crow Lane west until his death 1762/3, his widow thereafter one year, then Newcomb took over till at least 1769. Higgins gunsmith was in 1771 at Bayley Lane at the Dog and Duck? He renamed it CROSS GUNS, 1773 he removed to Spon Street and renamed the DUBLIN CASTLE the CROSS GUNS. There after the Duck became THE GOLDEN CROSS. I would like to see more evidence it was called the DOG and DUCK although I have recorded it as that but where I got it from - maybe Ashby's book!

Thanks for that, it pushes the information about the pub further back. So it was the Watchmaker's Arms that was the Dublin Castle and not the Fountain/Mechanic's Arms? Note - the Watchmaker's wasn't directly on the corner because there was one more building before Crow Lane. You can just see it peaking above the pub in the photo. The last building you can see in the distance is the one next to the Old Windmill to the west so the pub is just out of sight. I think. Originally that brick building was on its own but the jettied houses to the right of it were demolished and the new brick buildings formed the now familiar group. The brick building next to them was in turn demolished (or remodelled) along with the Mechanic's arms and replaced with factory buildings. It's a very tricky area to work out and I've spent a lot of hours trying to determine what building fits what plot on the map. Incidentally, that image of The Old Windmill and its neighbours, there is a set of windows missing from the arch to the first front door. Originally the there would have been a door in the place of one of the 4 ground floor windows.

With the mention of Trafalgar Street earlier in this thread - great timing for this one that has recently surfaced from the Bygone Spon End FB page.

Oh yes, second house, as you say you can just see it, puts it more in line with Newcombs Yard perhaps. The death of Newcomb post 305, this ties in with the move from Gold Cross too. Thanks, Bill

Newcomb's yard is just one building to the right of the photo above. I've been trying to untangle the images and streets for 4 years now and I still find it confusing.

Would it not have been to the left Helen if we're looking east?

The photographer is stood at about number 50 looking east towards the city. Crow Lane is off to the right of the photo between the gap in the buildings. Left and right are different from the map because the camera isn't pointing north. Both far left and far right are closer to the camera and more west than the buildings in the centre. On the south side of the street (to the right) the numbering goes down as the buildings get further away from the camera. The lantern in the original photo could be The Eagle at 48. The kink in the road hides a bunch of later buildings including number 40 which has the passage to Newcomb's Yard. Newcomb's Yard is not behind the Watchmaker's Arms but 3 buildings west of it. The Watchmaker's Arms is at 36 and The Mechanic's Arms is at 30.

Actually the more I look at that photo that I just posted I'm not sure it is Trafalgar Street? Isn't it looking east along Thomas Street with Moat Street to the right?