Our Children's Education

Hi all Childrens Education This is an emotive subject, but as adults, I hope that we are able to discuss the issues of this, which effects our future, the future of our children, grandchildren & ultimately our city. I do not know what the right answer is on this. I definitely do not like the idea of children losing their childhood. I am also aware that many other countries & states do not start formal education for their children until age of seven, in at least one country, but where their national achievements are greater than ours here in Coventry & the UK in general. I do wonder though, whether part of the problem of disadvantage, is our assumption that all parents can parent. This is where this can get very emotive, as do we confuse love of a child, with the responsibility of raising the child? We in Coventry, who were raised during or in the aftermath of the war, did at least benefit from being parented by folks who had the experience of hardship, but most pulling together. If at some point that is lost & a child today has parents who were themselves disadvantaged, do we imagine that somehow those parents suddenly gain the skills to parent, which they never had as a child? I have far more questions than answers on this, so if you have thoughts, please do share in this very emotive & sensitive topic. (ps. I do have issues in using the word disadvantage, as I believe that this issue goes much further than just money. It is the expression that politicians & the media use.)

As long as there is not too much "compulsion" involved with these younger children I think it could be a good thing Phil but it must be based around play. Most people these days like to send their children to some sort of early learning or play scheme to mix with other children so if this was provided as free school places for all instead of expensive child care it would benefit the less well off. It has got to be fairly relaxed though and not too long hours. I have 2 grandaughters. The eldest has always loved to sit and colour and learn. The youngest, although a very intelligent girl, would not sit for more than a few minutes to do anything. Now she is at school she is fine but I think had she been pushed into formal education too soon she would not be so cooperative now.

I'll be on my soap-box here I am passionate about children's education and have very strong views. Wasn't it the Jesuits who suggested: Give me the child between birth and seven years and I'll give you the man. To me that's indoctrination rather than education. And, it is my belief that it is indoctrination that goes on in our primary and secondary schools today - just as it was in my schooldays. But just now I need to go and sort out what I want to say on this matter into a logical format.

I know when I was helping in one of the schools, shoe laces, able to dress themselves too, was an issue, some parents not helping their child's reading was another. I recall one teacher saying to me if the mother can't be bothered why should she, the parents in question were not from a poor back ground either. I have several thoughts on this, here goes. Firstly when we were younger, on the whole, families were larger, so we grew up quicker learning from our older siblings, even helping around the house with chores, looking after the smaller siblings, which a lot of young mothers now have not had to do, their parents have done it for them, some are more concerned about themselves, material world through tv, also adverts and mags and facebook, than the children in a few incidents. A wage back then could run a large family, two parents didn't need to work, mother was at home, mostly to have time to teach these basic skills, even though my mum worked part time evenings at the Fina garage then in Jubilee Crescent later the Rialto Casino when we were older so she could have a bit of pocket money for herself. Now both parents are expected to work, so where is the time for the children!!!! The government can't have it both ways, also a single parent having to work full time and be there for a child, it shows how out of touch they are with the people and putting pressure causing a lot of this themselves. Taken into account time for getting to and from work with the amount of traffic now compared to years ago. Two. I can't never recall this being an issue until the government changed the education system where now the teachers have no time for all the form filling the government place on them and all these tests, so children are being left behind because of the government system. When I was at school, I was taught by the teachers to write with chalk and a little blackboard, until then we couldn't have a pencil and book to save money, I was taught to read by the school, also my alphabet at 4 years old by the school, spelling, times tables were taught by the school not by my parents, we had to chant our times tables, how to break our words for spelling, the Welsh way of teaching as the head was Welsh, hence like playing a game which is the fastest way of teaching any child, to make it fun not a chore. At 9 years of age, my children were never taught their alphabet, I taught it them, with writing, I found they were being taught to write a completely different way to how it should be, making it harder. The reading books which are supplied at the schools are not very good, told to me by a teacher, I was advised by the teacher to buy Ladybird books for my youngest. It's a fact that children do learn best young prior to 5 but then lose interest doing worse in the long run. I have helped out in Windmill Road nursery, Keresley Grange school, Coundon Court, also Christ the King, just to let you know why I say what I do. I have noticed how our children have been left to stew, as a whole, as so to bring others in to do work, never encouraged unless you have a well to do parent. Now as I see it when they took away apprenticeships etc and brought in others to take these jobs on, cheap labour at the cost of expensive errors and not training or encouraging our children to be entrepreneurs where the ideas and money stays here in this country and provide jobs for our people not abroad where most of our industry goes eventually by outside companies that are not owned by Bristish. As for difficult children to teach instead of forcing teaching them our way, try going their way of thought then we would have more success with these children, ie a 50 year old man said at JHP he couldn't spell or read, so I asked him to spell the Live and Let Live, he spelt it, then the Adam and Eve, he spelt that too eventually as he loves his beer so of course he could spell and read, least he wouldn't know where to get his pint would he. Another girl couldn't add up or subtract, so I put it money wise as she loved spending, so I asked her if she bought some thing for a pound and gave me five pounds and I gave her 2 pounds change would that be right, she replied no she would want four pounds, the teacher that used to teach at Warwick Uni asked me how I got her to do his sum, I told him I put it into money.

It seems to me that the children who don't get the support, opportunities and care they need along the way won't learn what they need to, however early they start formal education. It's the quality of what they receive when there that counts, and this can be improved by much smaller classes, a system where good teachers are given support and encouragement and where children can work at their own pace(and that means more challenging for some, slower for others). Saying you will learn more by starting earlier, if you are in a bad situation, is like saying that the earlier you get to the airport for a plane that is delayed, the sooner you will reach your destination.

I agree Woodford as some children learn better later than earlier in some cases, also agree with smaller class size too, this used to be at Alice Stevens where one of my daughters attended because I was told by Coundon Court she continued to bring the English teacher sentences that didn't make sense, so I asked why did she let it continue to a late age bringing her work up that didn't make sense, she then was sent to Alice Stevens now she is a carer and has qualifications NVQ level one two and three where a lot of writing is done.

Thank you morgana, you have said some of the things I planned to say. My granddaughter is in her first year of teaching after completing her honours degree course: three years of study. Thirty years ago the B. Ed. (Honours) was a four year course but, in the interim, has been reduced to 3 to save government money. (They cut everything but their own pay and expenses ) But, with all the admin she has to complete she has very little time to plan and create content for her lessons. She is teaching a class of 34 juniors - 8-9 year olds. For Christmas my 16-year-old grandson wanted a gaming computer. I insisted that for me to contribute he had to come round for us to discuss the best way to configure his computer and he had to build it himself under my guidance. At the end of it all he has a brilliant computer that fits his needs: it is by a country mile faster than my own. But, at the end he said "Granddad, thank you. You have taught me more about computers in 5 hours than I learned at school in 5 years." I doubt that is strictly true but he learned more of what he wanted to know.

A good topic, this is a subject that has always intrigued me. Having gone to Stoke Heath and then Caludon in 1955, I think that our education was brilliant. Having said that, I did waste much of my time at school, as it was just great fun for me and some of my buddies. What was clearly different in those days, leaving at 15, to my knowledge, everybody that wanted an apprenticeship got one (my recollection would be that that was most people). This may be controversial, but I think that we were very lucky living in Coventry, as we had a forward looking council and we got comprehensive schools. Maybe it was the fact that they were new buildings that made the difference. Fortunately, for me, in 1960 I joined the Royal Navy, then I got my real education, at a time when I was really ready for it. From then on I had quite a love affair with education and learning. Later, after I had had a lot of education, including 2 years in full time education, as an adult, which I always thought was quite significant. Then in about 1968. We had a few youngsters join the ship that I was on (Phoebe), and they really were not very good at English or Maths. Not sure if by then children stayed at school until 16. Anyway I was able, and more than happy, to help them get to to required standard. At the time I thought it was strange, and I wondered what had happened to their schooling. There must have been about 10 of them, from all parts of the country. My own children went to a village comp. in a village near Northampton, where we have lived for many years. They had a very good education and have done well. Our son went to university, being the first member of our family so do do. Never sure why, but it does seem as though children from village schools do generally seem to do better. I have always thought that politicians, of whatever colour, do harm with constantly interfering with education. Whatever else, I would have thought that stability, as in most areas of life, was essential.

Google '26 Amazing Facts about Finland's Unorthodox Education System' and then consider whether we are likely to make progress with this latest idea.

Is Margaret Thatcher's edict that only history up to 1945 can be taught in schools still implemented?

Thatcher was all for bringing the date 'forwards' for history teaching. While I was at school, the cut off date was 1848. Italy and Germany didn't exist as recognised nations until 1861 and 1870 respectively. Any history touched on after that date was purely incidental, and only covered Britain's battle successes, even to the point of turning some into 'glorious' defeats, acts of bravery in the face of adversity.

Traditionally in Britain. it always had to be well out of living memory before it could be officially taught, and what was taught had to show Britain in a good light.

The same happens everywhere else too. In Japan, history between 1941 and 1945 is glossed over as a struggle to become an economic super-power, and then in 1950, Soichiro Honda built his first motorcycle in his backyard. Three cheers for Soichiro. Hi Hi Hi

This is because we live in a screwed up mental country with no one with any brains, just full of policies of contradictions, and all out to make profit from education instead of government funded. There are thousands of our children out there that are not good academically yet could take a car engine out and put it back repaired without any qualification whatsoever or repair the vehicles or build without the qualifications, this country sidelines these children which even America has criticised us for. I shudder each time I hear a car etc company moving out of Britain which is not British as they have picked our children's brains for design then taken that design to another country so their people benefit from it. I do believe if we design then it should stay in this country not moved out so others benefit from our ideas.

Fractions!!! Still makes my children (now in their 40s), shall we say fractious Mention ratios and percentages and their eyes glaze over. Obviously they didn't have Mr Rosser from Charter Primary School teaching them. You can make it very easy and suggest "If you had a £1 and you gave me 24p what percentage would you be left with" it would baffle them. And my eldest has the same level of degree as George Osborne - but his ain't in common sense either A year or so ago they did a survey and asked a group of primary teachers "What is 1/2 divided by 1/4?" 67% of them got the wrong answer. My granddaughter, now a primary teacher, was driving me around the countryside one day when it was time to pick up her partner from work. She set the Sat-Nav to the place we needed to go. After a couple of miles "After 200 yards TURN RIGHT". Within 50 yards she had turned up a side street. Turns out she has no concept of yards and no idea of how to change the sat-nav to give directions in metric.

Hi pixrobin - which "Charter Primary School" are you referring to? In answer to "What is 1/2 divided by 1/4" - would it be easier to say only 1/3 got it correct? (although to achieve a failure rate of 67% must have meant a very large group being asked the question) And the only problem with switching a sat-nav over to metres is that you then have to deal with a journey distance measured in kilometres - which I would imagine would/could cause even more problems! I have often wondered though why we still refer to mpg (miles per gallon) when refering to a vehicles fuel usage when we have been buying fuel in litres for years. It would allow us to calculate a much more acurate cost of motoring if we simply referred to "miles per litre" in the first place!

If you care about education then many schools in the Coventry area (indeed all over the country) are crying out for Governors. I have done this for 8 or 9 years now and all sorts of skills are required.