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Burges and Cross Cheaping

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Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
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241 of 253  Wed 24th Jan 2024 1:00pm  
: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:2549

You folks are so darn clever, it's almost like solving a jigsaw puzzle. I would be lost if it wasn't for the clock. Thumbs up
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Slim
Another Coventry kid
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242 of 253  Wed 24th Jan 2024 1:23pm  
: Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:635

On 4th Nov 2023 12:54pm, Helen F said: A very rare image of a fairly boring shop front. It was common for shops to create postcards as a form of advertising and sometimes they're the only half decent record of certain buildings. I've given the image a very quick fix, while I await the original to make a better copy. This is number 9 and 10 of the Burges. West side of the road, south of the Radford Brook. The building is newish and in the 1610 map, the area was free of buildings.
Interesting to note the overhead cable and tracks for the trams. They had trams in Cov when my mum was a little girl in the 1920s. Now here's another funny thing, albeit this time of a technical nature. If technical stuff is not your bag, please read no further. As there is only one overhead conductor, the earth return was obviously through the rails. In those days, most of the trams ran on d.c., as d.c. motors were much easier to control than a.c. motors. Well, they didn't have the power electronics we have nowadays. I presume the trams in Cov all ran on d.c. A whole chapter is dedicated to this subject in a 1924 copy I have of the Practical Telephone Handbook. The BPO, as it was then called, before being named the GPO, found out the hard way that after a few years of tram operation in inner city areas, underground phone cables were starting to fail at alarming rates. No PVC insulation being available, it was the practice for multicore cable sheaths to be made of lead, and there were large holes in the lead sheath, allowing the ingress of water. The lead was literally being carried away by the d.c. leakage current from tram rails. Because of multiple parallel paths to earth, not all of a tram's return current was going through the rails, some leaking into the general mass of earth. This prompted them to start looking at cathodic protection. Of course, with a.c., as modern trains use, there is no such problem because every second, the 50 positive half-cycles cancel out the 50 negative ones. On the London underground, that is the reason the d.c. circuit uses two separate insulated rails for the motor current; nothing to do with the rails for the wheels of the train. The tunnel cases are made of iron/steel sections, and you wouldn't want them to be corroded away by electrolytic action. I'm sure that if the underground were being started now, they'd do it differently. After all, the first underground trains had steam engines. Oh my
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Helen F
Warrington
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243 of 253  Wed 24th Jan 2024 3:56pm  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:4210

I do like a bit of technical stuff, thanks Slim Double thumbs up The era for trams varied greatly by location. Trams. Birkenhead saw the first trams in 1860 but they were horse drawn at that time. Coventry's first trams were steam 1884-1893. While WWII ended the tram system in Coventry, it looks like they were phasing them out even before that. Coventry trams.
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Choirboy
Bicester
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244 of 253  Thu 25th Jan 2024 2:45pm  
: Joined Nov 2020  Total posts:101

Thanks Slim, being a "light current" electronic engineer I hadn't thought of that. Cheers CB
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
rocksolid
Bristol
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245 of 253  Sat 27th Jan 2024 12:50am  
: Joined Jan 2024  Total posts:30

On 24th Jan 2024 11:28am, NeilsYard said: Whilst I was at the Coventry Cross last week - I hadn't noticed this original Road Sign before opposite - It's been there a while Big grin - © Coventry Digital - Was the junction in to Bull Ring the meeting point for Burges and Cross Cheaping pre-war?
Interesting to compare the 2 photos. In the 1929 one you can just see in the central section of the building right at the top there is a set-in tablet which said 1914, the year the building was constructed. In the new shot it has been removed, the 'Established 1848' remains. I wonder if '1914' was removed deliberately (why?) or blown off by a bomb? Maybe there is a photo taken between these 2 dates which would answer the question.

Question

Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Helen F
Warrington
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246 of 253  Sat 27th Jan 2024 2:05pm  
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At this link at Britain From Above July 1949, it looks like the AD 1914 part of the sign was still there hiding behind the Burton's (interior lit) sign. It maybe that it had already begun to decay and/or the fixings for the Burton's sign damaged it beyond the point of repair? Since the brickwork doesn't look damaged/replaced I might guess that the sign was just a render coating and not inset stone blocks? Second thoughts - some of the pediment coping stones are different colours, so maybe the top had been in part or wholly rebuilt?
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
rocksolid
Bristol
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247 of 253  Sat 27th Jan 2024 3:48pm  
: Joined Jan 2024  Total posts:30

Here is a better shot of the Comley's building from c 1929, the ground level is not too clear but the right hand side shows Montague Burton's other shop with its distinctive curved fascia, they took the rest of this building over after the Broadgate branch was burnt out: It's extraordinary how many furniture shops there were in this short stretch, James Woodhouse at 20-21 Coss Cheaping, Richmond's at 26 and Smart's at 13 Burges next to the Wine Lodge/Tally Ho! (now The Philip Larkin).
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
NeilsYard
Coventry
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248 of 253  Mon 29th Jan 2024 11:11am  
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Here's the back of Comley's - Is that the culverted Sherbourne to the right?
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Helen F
Warrington
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249 of 253  Mon 29th Jan 2024 11:57am  
Moderator, : Joined Mar 2013  Total posts:4210

The open Sherbourne ran on a bit of a curve at that point. So I believe that the small, old building just to the right of centre at the very bottom was just to the right of the river but the river then curved to the right and came up to that small roadway. It then headed slightly to the left under the road where it still runs, out into the Palmer Lane area. While the culvert could have redirected the line of the river, it would still have had to pass under the road at roughly the same place, so on balance I think that the culvert followed the line of the river - so under the right hand end of Comley's, which might explain the odd shape of the end wall. To the right of the small roadway was the Fountain Inn.
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
NeilsYard
Coventry
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250 of 253  Wed 31st Jan 2024 4:44pm  
Moderator, : Joined Aug 2010  Total posts:4113

And another slightly different view/era of Burges looking North - circa 1930s as The Wine Lodge is present -
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
NeilsYard
Coventry
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251 of 253  Fri 9th Feb 2024 4:52pm  
Moderator, : Joined Aug 2010  Total posts:4113

Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
Dreamtime
Perth Western Australia
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252 of 253  Sat 10th Feb 2024 3:28am  
: Joined Jan 2010  Total posts:2549

A great one Neil. I love the pics with plenty of activity to study. I see the clock stood the ravages of time. I have just had a metal sun blind installed outside and glad to see they have improved 100% since those shown here. Looking at all those awnings it must have been a lucrative business in their day.
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping
rocksolid
Bristol
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253 of 253  Sat 10th Feb 2024 4:56pm  
: Joined Jan 2024  Total posts:30

Yes both are excellent shots. I reckon the second one is just pre-war judging by the shops on the left side. Here is a much clearer copy of the Comley's building than the one I posted before (courtesy of Alton Douglas' book Memories of Coventry);
Streets and Roads - Burges and Cross Cheaping

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