Little Palace Yard

Worth looking at the others. I find it strangely spooky to be following the features in a series of photos through the ages, long after the last remains have gone. The tiger was on that same plinth in the first photo, and thus that photo is the oldest in time.

Yes, agreed Helen. I wonder where he went?

The clue might be when they went. They were still there in 1888 because the building the tiger was pictured against wasn't there. I think they were gone by at least 1925 because the trees the elephant was pictured against had gone. Would that date range give a clue as to who owned the garden? Did Bushills remove them?

I have looked through the articles in the Coventry newspapers for Little Palace Yard. There are lots of discussions over time about the carvings and the arbour. The main feelings of the historians of the time were that they were from Whitefriars Monastery, as both were owned by the same person, but as to their whereabouts, in 1917 they were donated to the Coventry City Guild by a Mrs Mackessack who at the time owned the property. The Guild rented the garden but the artefacts stayed in place. As they stayed there, they became the property of Bushills. They then again donated them to the Guild who in 1924 opened Bablake Museum in the Old Bablake. They are listed as being on display there, so that was when they were moved but another article in 1935 says they were then in St Mary's Hall at the same time that the arbour was moved to the Memorial Park! There was talk in the early 20th century about a photographic survey being made. This was something to do with Libraries Committee. Have you come across that, Helen? Thought this might also help Helen 1908

Thanks, Anne. Some of that fits, though I'm not so sure about the historical guesswork. Stuff from a number of places was definitely moved to St Mary's Hall but I've no idea where it all went after the war. There was at least one, probably two, fireplaces that were stripped out of the High Street reputed to be there too. The photos on CovDig do seem likely to be the photographic survey results. I doubt that the wall flourishes were gateways since there is no evidence of openings in the brickwork and while a gate existed on the south west corner in 1850, I don't know that it exactly matched up with the plinth. I think that it's possible that the wall was originally lower and it was later built up to the level of the plinths. The front of LPY and the two courts were decorated with similar curving pediments topped with stone balls. It's not implausible that the animals came from Whitefriars but I don't think they were medieval. The four animals were all from Asia and the first widely distributed image of an Asian rhino was by Albrecht Durer in 1515 and no live animals are recorded in Europe before that. The animals aren't in classical poses for early carved beasts and these carvings look like the artist knew an Asian elephant from an African one. I have my doubts that the Palace Yard and the LPY were connected as it would seem odd to connect the properties by garden rather than buy up adjacent houses. On the 1850 map there's no indication that they were previously one garden, though there were indications that the Palace Yard garden had been extended further south. The Palace Yard had not had the William III makeover and had few similar styling features from the late 1600s that were very apparent at the LPY. The Libraries Committee doesn't ring a bell but I think that the libraries did hold some of Coventry's treasures before the Herbert brought stuff together.

Hi Helen, I am only quoting articles from historic newspapers, I realise you know a lot more about these places than I do but I quite hope to find facts that will help. I realise, just wanted to give you the date that the animals were moved. Do you know what happened to all the artefacts from the Bablake Museum, did that go into store until after the war? The libraries committee were just compiling photos of old Coventry.

It's all good, Anne. I appreciate all of it. I'm just thinking. People have been making guesses about the city for hundreds of years. They were closer to the events but sometimes there is more information to draw together now eg the Board of Health map. This is the first I've heard about a Bablake Museum. Since both the school and the St Mary's Hall undercrofts survived the war the things stored should exist somewhere. I've often heard that LPY and PY were connected but I don't see it in the maps or why they would be. I'm sure that the gardens changed hands and boundaries were redrawn but who has two quite different properties at the ends of a complicated L shaped garden?

Helen, I will answer your question on Bablake museum under the topic "Pre-war art gallery or museum".

So down to Neil, Rob and Anne it looks very much like it is a 17. William III who was supposed to have owned the property died in 1702. So can we find out what the other half of the date was?

Post 88 on this topic showing the board with information about the remains says 1701 Helen.

Thanks to Malvern Carvell on FB - I hadn't realised that some of the stones around the Arbour ruins in the Memorial Park were from the Cathedral - donated on 28th November 1947.

A zoom from a Cooper Collection image - Little Palace Yard - my Uncle Ray's property - suspect it's before he was there as the Bushills Paper Store is not present, however. Zoomed as it's a great ground level view of the rear garden (and that Cat! )

And the full image -

I had a nice wander around the Memorial Park last night with one of my lads. They've cut back some of the laurel and exposed the Arbour base a lot more....... Compares nicely with other photos of it on here though with its brick base from when moved. And yes I did stand on it and imagined myself in Olde Cov!