Railways around Coventry

I have family who worked on both BR and some of the privatised businesses and the truth is a lot more complicated than it seems. A thousand million (American billion) more passenger journeys today than when BR was privatised has to have some detrimental effect. No? The previous peak of train travel was the early part of the last century when there were few alternatives and a lot less safety. Our networks were designed for a lot less trains. Track has been uprooted. In Beeching's day it probably looked like a sensible idea. We're the 7th busiest rail network and with the exception of Japan the UK has a lot less space to put in new rail lines. Rail use declined from the pre 1920s peak until the railways were privatised. It's ok to grumble about share dividend but you have to remember that the state under Blair sold BR, had the sale money and spent it. To take it back into government control, you still have to find people who know a lot about the business... like the people who run it now. Rail companies have to balance government rules, contractor costs, other business costs, linking with other train services, engineering, incidents (landslips, suicides, etc and yes, even leaves) and make some profit. The profit isn't a side line, it's an essential part of any business. It's necessary to fund improvements, reassure suppliers that they aren't going to go bust leaving bills unpaid and It's payback for people sinking their money into the business. Yes, it's usually more than the bank rate but that's a compensation for the chance that the value of shares may go down as well as up. Ask people who held shares in Railtrack about the risks of investment and nationalisation. Contractors to the rail companies are going bust or being bought out because they can't afford what Network Rail want to pay eg Atkins, Carillion. When the pool is very small, whoever runs the rail will have to pay high prices to maintain and build. The rail companies themselves are failing and the Government takes the franchise off them and hands it to another company that will probably have many of the same problems and a load of new ones too. So on top of all that, the train operators also have to pay costs and make some profit. They have to weave their trains in and out of each other and get enough money in from passengers to fund it all. The off peak and pre booked tickets are essentially subsidised by commuters and those who can't work out how to get cheap tickets. Off peak is designed to lighten the traffic at peak. Yes, if the whole thing was nationalised then you could set standard prices and have one single ticket to go anywhere you wanted to. But all the other problems that the network has wouldn't go away. They might even get worse because nationalised industries have their own particular issues. However if the governments intend to continuously change what they want from rail businesses (and it not cost anymore) then maybe nationalisation is the answer. Just don't forget to pay the shareholders their money back.

I have enjoyed reading the recent posts about our rail system, not being a rail traveller myself I find them informative, particularly Helen's summing up of our rail history but when personalities intrude into the discussion I lose interest. I find I can learn a lot from the well informed members of the forum and have great respect for it. Keep up the good work folks.

As I was thinking about the high volume of train travel in the early part of the last century, it occurred to me that the average length of train journeys has grown considerably. As well as track, a lot of little and not so little stations were removed so short commutes diverted to the roads. My own small village had a station and would have seen people head just one short trip into Warrington's centre. The council is now looking again at that route but the costs of reopening the track (including raised sections, cuttings and a high level bridge) are eye watering. Not to mention the devastation to the homes built along the route now and the poor souls who live in the old station. People used to live a lot closer to where they work Rail commuting into London isn't a measure of how excellent the services are but how appalling the alternatives compare.

Helen, I agree with your last point, and not just for London. Trying to get anywhere by road in this country is a nightmare of jams and road works which never end. Even local journeys are fraught with heavy traffic, coupled with crumbling roads, parking restrictions and extortionate prices. So much so that we took the decision to go from two cars to one. I sold mine and use public transport for free. Rail services, like buses, aren't great but there isn't much choice. It's an interesting point about reopening old railways too. Where I live there is an idea to reopen the long-defunct Walmley station, which is within walking distance for me. The line is currently for goods only. The idea has apparently been spawned by our inept MP, supported by the equally inept West Midlands mayor. They don't seem to have considered that the line doesn't actually go anywhere useful. Not to Birmingham, nor even to Sutton Coldfield. It meanders from Walsall to Water Orton and I have no doubt that any passenger trains would be empty. I am all for more investment into railways, but not into white elephants and vanity projects that contribute nothing.

MisterD-Di. The point that you raised about reopened services not being used reminds me that, as I said in a previous post, when we lived overlooking the line with the Kenilworth service running on it in the 1950's, it rarely had more than a handful of passengers. I would like to know how it is being used now that it has restarted.

Hi Argon PeterB's post shows Kenilworth had a recorded 170,912 passengers for 2018-2019 (I made 2 of the journeys) - quite a bit more than a handful.

Thanks 3Spires. It's good to know the reopening is a success.

My point is that if there is a demand for a service then it should definitely be considered. I'm sure many would be well used, as the Kenilworth example shows. There are various routes around the West Midlands that are ok on their day. I used one for the first time yesterday, Moor Street to Olton. However, there is no point whatsoever in opening the goods line near me for passenger services as cannot see any demand whatsoever for Walsall - Walmley - Water Orton trains. There are currently no stations on the line and reconstructing one in Walmley would be farcical, there isn't even any access. As I said, though, our MP and mayor are just playing to the gallery. Our MP has been here for 18 years and his achievements are to get the town called "Royal" Sutton Coldfield (as if anyone cares) and, er.... that's it.

Not totally true, as the link to the line to Castle Bromwich still exists, which would thereby allow the opportunity to reinstate the original service from Penns (Walmley) to Birmingham New Street.

I am interested in railways and have watched the opening of Kenilworth Station with interest. The passenger numbers quoted here are equivalent to 34 passengers per hour based on 52 weeks 6 days operating and 16 hours per day. The units used carry 140 passengers. So we have spent £10m? on the station, continue to subsidise the service, do not have the flexibilty of buses and leave passengers outside both city and village centre with 25% loadings when elsewhere units are full to standing. Suggest no one on here would spend their money on this

Hi busman Thanks for doing the maths on this one - the loadings are perhaps a little disappointing but I'm a great believer in "if you build it they will come". It will be interesting to see if the numbers improve following the introduction of the direct Leamington service through to Nuneaton. It is all about connectivity. As for buses - unless the service is subsidised (by you and me), the bus companies aren't interested - bus deregulation has to be one of the biggest con tricks perpetrated on the taxpayer.

Hi busman, The planning application for the station gave a usage of figure of 275,000. It takes a number of years for a new station to reach their full potential. Coventry Arena has seen a 30% increase in two years while Bermuda Park has seen an 80% increase. Given the 170,000 is for 11 months with no Sunday service I think they are well on target to hit the forecast. From observation the majority of passengers are through passengers (not getting on/off at Kenilworth) and I think the new service has made a Coventry-Leamington commute by train more attractive compared to an over-crowed Voyager on an (often late) Cross Country train. Figures are not available for this, but Coventry and Leamington have both posted an increase in passenger numbers. The present trains are second hand ex-London so the only cost was for the refurbishment (adding toilets). Peter.

Yes, reaching critical mass takes time. When I was at school, there were about 2 trains per hour at Coventry station, okay, maybe 3. Now there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes, like the underground. I hope KNW will pick up in time - it's had since 1965-ish for passengers to desert the train and go elsewhere (thanks to Beeching and the then government's short termism). I wasn't aware that the present newish oilers* are second hand. * diesel

Well hopefully Peter B the numbers quoted are for Kenilworth passengers rather than through passengers as that destroys the value cost for Kenilworth Station even more. On the point for bus de-regulation the correspondents obviously cannot remember the shambolic state rural services were in pre 1986. The only reason even now that most rural services run is for bus pass users only as the increase in car usage continues. Back in the 80s Kenilworth-Coventry by bus was every 30 minutes now it is every 10 minutes (probably thanks to Warwick Uni) so connectivity is certainly better now.

It certainly is, in term time. We have a lot of students who live in Leamington.