King Henry VIII Grammar School

Back in 1979 I broke my leg in a house rugby match (Hales v Sherwyns). Geoff Courtois very kindly drove me home and left me there until my mother came home and asked what I had done. She immediately drove me to Cov and Warks Hospital. The hospital mis-diagnosed the fracture and I then ended up spending 5 months in plaster. Two weeks after having the cast off, Ted Norrish "persuaded" me to run in the inter-house cross country, which took place by the Finham sewage works, to enable Hales to have six runners. Unsurprisingly I came last by a long way and nearly missed the coach back!! There would probably be a few issues with this these days, but it never did me any harm!!!

Hello Bags, Re your question concerning Pupil-to-House allocation, the inequality could have been due to something as straightforward as the size of the room in which the get-togethers were held. Maybe someone who attended a smaller-roomed House meeting once complained that these were "a bit of a squeeze" and so there was a redistribution leading to an overall disparity. It was probably mentioned that there was loads of space in the Metalwork Room (given that I never saw any metal, nor any work, inside these premises) and so Kings were the recipients of overflow. Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, we should have done all this deliberation and analysis whilst we were actually at the place. Conducted our own 'Tie Count' for each of the years, noted the unequal distribution, written a petition of complaint, had it signed by all the pupils and then watched the Head rip it to shreds on stage. What interests me is the method by which we were placed into forms A, Alpha, B or Beta. Did they use Eleven Plus scores, or School Entrance Exam Results, or a combination of the two? Or did they use something more sophisticated, perhaps entitled "The Walker-Shore Academic Excellence Probability Calculator" ? This might have taken into account a multiplicity of factors, requiring diligently collected data, crunching logarithm numbers and plucking figures out of thin air, in order to arrive at a predicted position for new entrants based on hypothetical marks in an examination simulation. To which they then, at the end of year one, rectified the blunders - or 'normative unfactored causal deviations'- via promotions and relegations. Or did they write to our Junior School Heads and ask them to rate our future prospects by placing us in one of four categories, namely: Cap and Gown; Upper White Collar; Lower White Collar; Blue Collar? No, surely not. The search for answers continues.

Or maybe Gibberds the Outfitters had telephoned the Head, stating that they had abnormally large stocks of Kings and Whites House ties and he had replied "No prob. Leave it to us."

I never saw any metalwork done in the metalwork room either. It was however our form room the LVth with Courtois as our form master and I think our English teacher, though not too sure about that. We even did at least one mock exam in there. It was such an inspiring choice of venue that it led to Dave Smith accidentally stabbing Johnny Stock in the upper arm whilst showing him his latest knife. A bizarre incident that I seem to remember Stock leaving the room with minimal fuss and then some master coming in and calling Smith out and we had no idea what was going on until break time. So called posh boys eh?

Smith and Stock, now there was an interesting pair. I seem to remember the incident, but I certainly wasn't there. In truth I can't ever remember using the metalwork room, but maybe the mists of time have faded my memory? I think Courtois did teach (if that's the word) English, but I don't recall him teaching me. - I think in LV Jenkins took us.

I was there and it was all handled in a very low key way. I don't know what punishment Dave Smith got but he certainly wasn't expelled. Probably quite a few Saturday morning detentions. There were a few errrr ummm, what could be described as tearaways in my year a lot of which seemed to centre around supporting City. I think I remember Jenkins, was he an old chap?

I thought I had contributed all that I had to this obviously very important research into the question of houses and their origin and I still don`t incline to the view that it was all "happenstance" - King Hal was a control freak, probably not the first, but even in the days before critical path analysis his attention to detail and planning was excellent. Just as he originated the turning of swords into plough shares, he foresaw the destruction of the monasteries as providing rubble and stonework for more humble dwellings - "houses" as he saw them of which through the effects of French immigration `swamping` there was a nationwide shortage. But I digress, It occurs to me there is another aspect of not just why there were houses, but why the school was further divided into elitist divisions. Strangely enough, I did discuss with my wife back in the 1960`s the reason for the splitting up into Classics, Maths, Science, Modern etc and the fact that one took Physics, another Chemistry and one Biology. She said it was training for one`s designation or leadership station in life. Thus Classics one would be destined for the Church (clear path to ultimate Canterbury appointment, obviously not Popehood) Politics I don`t think she meant PM as that was reserved for Public Schools Civil Service Ambassador and just below level. and so on. I`m not quite sure why Classics got Biology which in my day appeared to be heavily into "nature" in all its forms, frogs, tadpoles sepals of flowers, seeds and sex - I would have thought the Greeks and Romans were essentially martial enterprises, physics and chemistry being much more appropriate venues. But of course I forget the Church - they obviously go with Biology, while they are the most martial of all, actually blessing the battle in many cases; they must not appear to be associated with the forces they formulate and encourage. Anyway the relationship between Houses and the training for the elitist stations in life. Am I going down a road that should be explored? How the hell I never achieved my elitist potential; I don`t know, perhaps it`s something to do with the fact I only got three O levels or perhaps Classics was the awful boring backwater, completely uninspirational that I found it.

Got a "Brill" from Phil. Life has at last found meaning!

Yes, or at least he seemed to be. Many teachers turned out to be not as old as they appeared. Didn't Dave Smith's parents race greyhounds? - I vaguely seem to remember him telling me about it once.

Greyhound racing is a touchy subject for me. Being childless I am Dad to two Lurchers one rescued and another rehomed. I am an advocate of banning professional dog racing, though not I must add an activist. Sighthounds like to run and chase each other for the sheer joy of it and that's where it should end.

Inkers, you could be right. Thinking about it, one has to remember that when we went to Henry's, the whole country was still recovering from the ravages of WW2. Rationing was still in force when I was born. A lot of the supplies that were imported were in short supply. It may be the case that the die stuff/pigments or whatever they use for colouring red, green and yellow had to be imported from far-off lands with hotter climates, whereas the stuff used for blue and white was easily grown over here and throve in Blight's colder climate. That would explain a dearth of appropriately coloured garments for Hollands, Hales and Sherwyns. So the unequal house sizes may well have been a result of the second world war.

Slim, I am in awe of your powers of logical deduction! If you didn't leave the school with at least four 'O' Levels then the system horribly let you down. Alas, my efforts at explaining the origins of the Houses at Henrys (see below) now look somewhat feeble in comparison and, even worse, that I am making the whole thing up. Um. Are you sure rationing has come to an end? Because I tried to buy ten iceberg lettuces the other day at my local supermarket and was told that I could only have a maximum of three. And they say that this country encourages the entrepreneurial spirit. Piffle.

Roger, As an eminent historian, like yourself, I share your unwillingness to believe that King Henry would have signed off his approval to a school bearing his name, without having full knowledge of its intentions. Consider this. The school was founded in 1545, two years prior to his untimely passing. Apart from his desire for a male heir, the other matter at the top of his 'to do' list was the retention of power at all costs. What were the instruments of power available to him? There were five. The Armed Forces; The Church; The Law; The Tax Collectors; and, finally, The Spies. Each had a specific aim. Violence by Use of Weapons; Threat of Hell and Damnation; Threat of Treason; Threat and Implementation of Extortion by Land and Money Grabbing and, finally, Spreading Mistrust, Fear and Paranoia Amongst His Enemies. I speculate that the school was founded in order to train its pupils in one of these specialist arts. Or, as we prefer to call it "Inspire A Generation". Five means of Power and Control. Ergo, five Houses. The entrance to each House would have been via a heavily guarded door. (So heavily, in fact, that guards guarded other guards.) And King Henry acknowledged his debt to the Norman written and published "L'Idiots Guide To Getting And Retaining Power", by calling these "The Cinque Portes". John Hales, the founder, was a cleric and Hales House was, therefore, dedicated to training pupils for a life in the Church. If you look at his Wikipedia page, you will see the books he wrote, which would have been used as training manuals. For example, "Of The Blasphemie Against The Holy Ghost". What the other Houses were for remains a mystery yet to be solved. As we know, Henry died soon after the school began, but Edward VI let it continue. However, when Mary came to the throne, she would not have been too happy about this arrangement, so the Spies did what Spies do and gave her a load of misinformation, so as to convince her that it was merely a normal educational institute and not an instrument of Henry's megalomania. Whereas, in truth, its administration, if not the taught subjects, continued on as a Tudor relic. This was done by the passing down of "L'Idiots Guide" from Head to Head in a secretive ritual, until the late 1970s, when girls were finally admitted. Anyone care to debunk? The proof will be obtained by the discovery of "L'Idiots Guide". Well, I never! I've just had a revelatory insight. Lyddiard's Guide!!!!!

This is funny! The link to John Hales on the KIng Henry VIII School Wikipedia page looks to me like the wrong bloke. Apparently, the school was founded in 1545, by a fellow who was born in 1584. I found another Wikipedia page John Hales 1516-1572, who seems a more likely candidate and it does credit him with setting up the school. Apparently, he worked for Thomas Cromwell for a while and also did some prison time in the Tower of London. He wasn't a cleric, but he did write. According to this page, he wrote "Introductiones ad grammaticum" for his newly founded school. Looking at his cv, I would say "Law". Thus, Hales was 'Law House', not 'Church House'. All makes sense to me!