King Henry VIII Grammar School

Mr D-Di, the reason you never had a careers interview was probably due to the fact that you were an A- level student. You didn't need one!! A-level students were expected to glide into university and a career would fall into their laps after 3 years of study. Mind you, based upon my 'careers interview', as detailed in an earlier post, you didn't miss much!

I also was one of the pupils who suffered under 'Tramp' Edwards teaching regime, though to be fair I did well in maths, and I much preferred him to 'Jack' Wrench. His teaching style was flamboyant and erratic, but he had a passion which I got a little caught up in. Incidentally his son Nick was in my year. 'Piggy' Shore I sort of got along with, we certainly saw a lot of each other for various reasons, and whilst I escaped any physical punishment (apart from various slaps and hair pulls) I spent a lot of my Saturday mornings in Room 10. I know I was a cocky little beggar, but there were a lot of them in my year, and not many of the teachers knew how to deal with these brash, confident youngsters, with new ideas, new fashions, new books and new music. Reading the memories of people who joined after I left in 1970 something very radical happened between 1970 and 1975 when the girls joined. People post pictures of them and 'Be-bop' Barnes and he's smiling, they talk affectionately of 'Mona' Lyddiard, and they have a genuine affection for the place. I don't think many of the 1965 intake look back so fondly.

No disrespect at all - Disorganised - I've heard many other people speak ill of Alan Edwards' classes (including former KHVIII teachers!)! I guess it's very much a case of "horses for courses". I was in Tramp's 6th form maths class in the year (1964?) when he was going to tech classes in the evenings to learn the "new maths" and teaching it to us the next day. We had Jack Wrench, Fred Dunn and (in my last year or two) a young teacher whose accent sounded very American, though I think he was from the west country (what was his name??) for the other maths sets. I - for one - thought (and still do think) that they were excellent teachers. I can't say that I use the set theory or mathematical logic stuff very much, although I suspect that these things formed a very important part of my approach to number-crunching and statistical analysis in my later careers. But the matrix algebra turned out to be something that I use almost daily. Part of my work over the years has involved working out the best ways to get from point A to point B, and I can remember vividly Fred Dunn's first lesson on that -

"create a matrix of origins and destinations - what happens if you multiply the matrix by itself? And if you multiply it again by itself?"

That would be complete gobbledegook for most people, but it turned out - for me - to be the basis of some ground-breaking research into trans-national organised crime - it helps me work out what routes the bad guys are likely to take for trafficking their products! If some part of the route is blocked, the matrix algebra will tell you where they are likely to move their operations, but it's so complicated you can go and cook lunch while your computer works it out. It is now pretty clear - in retrospect - that teaching the new maths too enthusiastically to students who still had to learn the "old" maths was a big mistake. But I don't think anyone knew that at the time. It was "sold" by the theoretical mathematicians as a way to make kids understand the absolute fundamentals of maths, but sometimes it's better not to know - just follow the rules even if you don't know why they are the rules. It often confused the hell out of me, and I can imagine the torments suffered by other kids! IMHO, Tramp was an excellent teacher caught up in the excitement of the "new"! He doesn't deserve to be seen as the destroyer of the maths curriculum - more as a victim of poor advice.

"it helps me work out what routes the bad guys are likely to take for trafficking their products! " That's easy, the bad guys pass laws in parliament to make it legal

I am glad that others remember maths teaching at KHVIII to be a shambles too. I was never actually taught by 'Tramp' but I am certain he was responsible for what a mess it became. He was eccentric and disorganised, and supported by staff who never actually seemed to buy into 'Mathematics - Modern Style' as it became known. There was actually only one proper maths teacher, Fred Dunn, who only taught me briefly. Again, I think Walker must shoulder some of the blame for allowing this situation to develop. His lack of teaching experience may have allowed Edwards to conduct his experiment in an uncontrolled manner. I suppose Walker regarded the prospect of the school being involved in the book as more kudos. I had the misfortune to be taught maths for much of my time there by Kolisch, whom I detested as much as he detested me. Difficult to learn when mistakes are corrected with a slap on the head. I think the only time my father, a placid man, ever visited the school was after another assault. Walker just made excuses for Kolisch, including about his age. The irony is that Walker was actually older than him. You are correct in what you say about change, although I believe the biggest change was probably Walker's retirement, along with some of the other dinosaurs. I left in 1971 and never recall Be-bop smiling.

Which came first? Your rebelliousness or the masters' attitude towards you? I found Dr Kolisch to be an excellent maths teacher - and most amusing at the same time it was thanks to him that it became such an important part of my life, work wise and socially

LIke most of my contemporaries, I found him to be a very poor teacher with no redeeming features. He was intolerant, vindictive and violent. This made him a figure of fun, so he was amusing for sure. Every boy in my class did their own impression of him. I do suspect that his intolerance escalated with age, as Walker alluded to when my father went to see him. When I started in class 2A I was full of enthusiasm for the school. This was gradually eroded over the years. Some teachers were fine, of course. But there were some whose attitude and demeanour destroyed that enthusiasm, either with their bullying (Shore, Kolisch, Crocker, Owen, Barnes etc) or with apathy and incompetence (Hughes, Chapman, Irwin etc). I was not naturally rebellious when I was 11, but by the time I was 15 the school had changed my attitude considerably. That new attitude was what actually served me well in my career, I suppose, as it gave me the mean streak I needed. There is no doubt that by about 1970 there was much discontent among many boys and there was lots of disruptive behaviour all over the school. This seemed to continue after my time there until the log-overdue changes happened.

Johnny - I did say I got caught up in his enthusiasm, but the lessons were a shambles. They were made up of kids who 'got' what was going on, and others who practically ran riot. I think the unbelievable changes that occurred when teachers like 'Doc' Edmunson, 'Dave' Cooper, 'Jim' Menhenick, 'Fairy' Light, 'Bob' Weddle, came to the school showed us that we were not some alien species, but human beings. Suddenly masters were talking to us, discussing our views, and trying to involve us in the lessons, rather than dictate to us, or copy lines off the board.

I would probably agree with you there, Disorganised1 ! He used to race into the classroom piled high with books, dump them on the desk, grab the nearest piece of chalk and fill the blackboard with algebraic squiggles. One day, we removed all the chalk, except for one piece, into which we had drilled a hole and filled with a live match stick. As anticipated, it flared up as he was writing, much to our amusement. But he just turned the chalk around and got on with it as if it was normal for chalk to burst into flames! The other teachers' names you mention were all after my time, so I never had the chance to compare. I did find, however, that when I went to University (LSE), KHVIII had already taught me most of the Uni maths curriculum!

My older brother became a pupil of KHVIII senior school in 1961 and eventually left with good A-levels and headed off for university. I became a pupil one academic year later and my whole experience was an unmitigated disaster. I left school having failed all of my O-levels, feeling a failure. Did I get there on the back of my brother's ability? Was I under too much pressure to repeat his successes? I carried a huge chip on my shoulder for years until in my mid-30s I decided to put my toe in the academic water, firstly with the OU and then with traditional universities Guess what, I'm not thick despite what KHVIII might have said or implied. My brother and I are both in our 60s now. We had never discussed our different experiences at the school -I fear that I must have been a terrible embarrassment to him at the time, but it recently came up in conversation. Apparently he hated the place just as much as I did but seemed to be able to shut out all of the distractions to concentrate on his main objective.

Woglet's defence of Walker and reservations about Burton, who was not head during his own time there, call for some corrections: 1. Burton was not a caner. I was sent a couple of times to him in IV Classical and he merely advised me on gentlemanly values. I cannot recall any contemporaries being caned. Yet the culture in education generally at the time was pro-caning. To give details. Before I went to the KHVIII junior school, I attended a primary where public caning at assembly was regular; teachers caned and struck knuckles with a ruler and pulled one's ear. A classmate whose father had died on HMS Hood was caned for sobbing. Permission to "leave the room" was often sadistically refused. Before I became a full-time writer, I taught for 12 years and I know from experience in teaching at Woodlands Comprehensive that caning by heads of department and house masters was a matter of course in the early 60's. This makes Burton's restraint the more remarkable. Gradually public opinion changed. In time it became subject to legal restriction. It was this that influenced Walker no doubt. But it remains true to say that the legend of Burton as a man who regularly resorted to the cane is the invention of those who did not know him. (Woglet's brief encounter with him is no evidence.) 2. The reason for Burton's unfriendliness to the Council is the same as Walker's - a need to defend the school from hostile acts by The Council. 3. Walker's building programme is no evidence against Burton, who presided over a blitzed institution with no immediate prospect of funding during the war and its aftermath. We need to have historical perspective in dealing with the two. 4. I am saddened to see someone accused of being better off in a local comprehensive simply because he criticised KHVIII. 5. On CB Shore - some members haven't a good word to say about him but I personally found him lenient. Some of his art teaching in the junior forms anticipated "progressive" methods. And he encouraged, in my time, the school art-satirist, Jackson, to draw some marvellous cartoons of the school at play and work for "The Coventrian"! Finally, he played his part in pulling the school round after The Blitz and evacuation. 6. I'm a bit bemused by Woglet's belief that ex-service masters were more likely to favour severe discipline after the war. Had he even been a member of my National Service generation, he would have known that the effect of conscription is quite the opposite - as was reflected in the literature of the 50's. It was also shown in the tolerance of mild-mannered ex-World War I officers like Major Sale and Capt Bodger Wilson who were recruited to teach us during the war years. (Wilson's recollection of his artillery unit's bombardment in the Arras sector at last made sense of Trig!) 7. The debate about Walker and Burton is really a question of the personality of the pupil responding to each. Some will prefer a maverick; others, a systems-man.

Alii alia dicunt. (I remember that from Latin, so I guess I can thank Kitty Fisher [I think it was he] and the School for educating me. Pity about the 24 hour clock and railway timetables though. Plus, income tax, rates, national insurance, tax returns, mortgages, legalised theft (= stamp duty), road fund licence, motor insurance, leasehold versus freehold, SPP, pensions... the stuff you need to know about life in the real world, instead of earning the hard way. Oh, and sex education (theoretical and practical!), contraception. How to deal with and stand up to incompetent halfwits that fill big organisations like utility companies and government departments. The Ombudsman. Inheritance tax. Basic legal concepts. Criminal law. Civil law. Planning permission. That should do for starters. The above reminds me of another Kitty Fisher favourite word: asyndeton.

I spent 5 rather miserable years in KHVIII from '69-'74. I started out with great enthusiasm but very quickly found the school and I were unfortunately completely incompatible As a council sponsored student and working class Irish to boot, I found the ethos of the school fairly hostile. From almost my first day some of the teaching staff and some of the pupils thought I would make good bullying material. I disagreed and spent a not inconsiderable amount of time forcibly dissuading some of my more physical school mates from pursuing their racist agendae at my expense Needless to say this put me on a collision course with the headmaster, as parents of some of the would be racist thugs would invariably complain to the school about their darling son arriving home somewhat tattered. As a consequence I spent a good proportion of my school life attending the headmaster's office, where he would rant and rave and threaten. Unfortunately, for him, it could demonstrably be shown that I was not the instigator and so he was unable to fulfil his oft stated desire to expel me. We settled instead for competing to see who could annoy the other the most. I forget the name of the deputy head when I first started there (Piggy Shore perhaps??) but if I recall correctly he died and was replaced by a Welshman who I think was named 'Taffy' James; one of the few decent senior staff in the school. I left the same year, or perhaps it was the year before, the headmaster, Walker; one of his last communications to me being a 'nice' letter telling me I would not be allowed to stay on to do A levels. This wasn't in the least troubling as KHVIII at that time was not particularly renowned for its academic success. Most of its achievements came on the sports field, in particular rugby. At one time there were three (ex international???) rugby players on the teaching staff although the only one whose name I can remember was Geoff Courtois.

I attended KHVIII from 1967-1974. Rugby playing staff (for Cov) that I remember were Bob Griffiths and Alan Cowman. GPC Courtois was more renowned for his exploits on the cricket field where he represented Coventry & North Warwickshire with some distinction.

Thread started in 2011, sorry not had chance to absorb all previous postings, so maybe some of my nostalgia from KHVIII is repeated. Returned from evacuation 1947 - previous school Ashby Grammar School Left 1951 for training at merchant navy "old wooden wall" HMS Conway, N.Wales, meant to be a deck officer, but found on arrival to be deaf, so went to be a purser. Educationally useless, probably as I learned many years later was probably because I misheard everything. OK at sport Rugby and Cricket Cricket "Jeff" Vent coach, Rugby Bullcock Played for Colts at Rugby, but never picked for first team, although when I went to Conway went into first team straight away, so realised it was a question of whether your face fitted - obviously mine didn`t. No gym building, we did it in one of the huts - imagine flying over the box horse, good job trampolines weren`t available in those days. Assembly in the school yard - Burton presiding -"Off Hats" he squashed his trilby under his arm. He went off to NZ - valedictory message - I will get all your Latin results there - and be reading them! Somebody bust a bog - big hoo ha at assembly, whoever it was Burton informed the assembly he/they would be "severely beaten" Think my Maths master was an ex Navy Australian, Beetham? - great chap Piggy Shore - "The Hig" to us. Fell foul of him, one of my friends from Warwick School who travelled on the same bus as me, furnished me with a copy of document "The New Typist", passed around the class, some twit caught with it, the Hig summoned, had to own up to ownership of such "dreadful filth" as he had ever seen - I would hear more - trembled for weeks, never heard another word - never got the poem back. Used to play for the Colts on a Saturday morning, Old Boys came round and roped us in to play for them Saturday afternoons at Binley. Anybody remember that ground - it was a farmers field, still fully undulating, had the cows on during the week - yes you can guess! Mud off at full time was by way of half a dozen galvanised tin baths, which had to do for both teams - we always made sure we got in before the visitors. Greek Master - "Pip" complete with pince-nez, maybe 5ft tall Mr.J.B. Young-Evans - great chap. Rumoured that the sixth form appeared through a trap door in the ceiling one lesson, after he had come into an empty room. "Maxy" Goldstein - Latin "you will wite out two Latin pwose for tomowwow" Playground game "Offy Offy All Off" - anybody remember it? Schoolboy Rugby Internationals when I was there Godfrey, John Phipps I think he became headmaster of the preparatory school - apparently their pupils and my brother`s lot (junior school) had pitched battles on "Top Green" at lunch time. School Song "We are the dump at the top of the hump" Finally I will never forget "I have forgotten his nickname - you know the chap who taught RE", anyway the one who informed many of us, we were "products of the scum that came from the gutters of backstreets in Coventry" and kept on yelling at us about some god called "Yaaway" - that finally confirmed me in my lifelong aversion to the church. Got him now "Holy Joe"