Watch and Clock Industry in Coventry

Thanks everyone. Great info Bill, extremely helpful Kevin.

Prof, I read the above with interest, but the bit about Rotherham and Bottrill, I think there's something wrong with the timeline there? Rotherham, of course, did a lot for the Coventry trade, but he would have been in nappies in the 1750's. Now this is from memory so feel free to fault it. He was born 1754ish, had a watch shop in Cross Cheaping around 1780's, before he joined Vale's, maybe 1790's. Old John Bottrill, he seems more of a clockmaker, maintaining the Holy Trinity clock and chimes, 1710ish, so was more ropes, wooden wheels and pulleys. He had a shop next to the White Lion, Smithford Street. Later he did write "watchmaker" in deeds. I read it was John Bottrill and others who revived the trade. Now this might have been Gabriel Holland, watchmaker, who had a shop in Broadgate, 1735. Samuel Vale, watchmaker, didn't finish his apprenticeship until 1750 so it wasn't him.There was Bradshaw and Ryley (beautiful watches). A librarian (Birmingham library) wrote a book saying Bradshaw was an apprentice of John Bottrill. Unfortunately nobody bothers to list where they get the info from. There's no doubt John was influential in reviving the trade so if you come across anything relating to him let me know. He had a son, Ebenezer, who was a watchmaker, 1750's, and there was Richard Holland, watchmaker, with a shop in Earl Street, but he was around Samuel Vale's age.

Reference Rotherhams I noticed when flicking through Midland Red`s photographs one of a blue plaque announcing that Rotherhams were founded in 1850 by Samuel Vale. The only other information I have about them is my grandmother Annie Bryan worked there, her husband William H Turner was from a watchmaking family, along with his brothers, George and Alec.

Hi Roger, MR has so many posts and you didn't give a reference number, so I couldn't find it. I would think that should be 1750 not 1850. We were taught the mayors of Coventry at school. Samuel Vale (watchmaker) 1777, he died in 1786. The founding day of Rotherham's changes depending what book you pick up, could be 1747/1749/1750. No research is done, it's just passed book to book. This intrigued me, so I got out my bucket and spade and went digging down the archive. What I found was quite unexpected and rewrites local history if true. Samuel Vale did not start Rotherham's. He purchased an established watch manufactory in 1752, this had been going since at least 1747 (hence the discrepancy in dates). So who owned the manufactory and where was it? Richard Holland (watchmaker)! and it wasn't in Spon Street, it was on the corner of Bayley Lane in Earl Street. Vale stayed there for 20 years with his partner George Howlette. You would have to look up Richard's family history to establish when he started, but 1747 for now!

Interesting to me the name Bottrill, as it was the name in a branch of our family which I had long forgotten about. I thought it an unusual surname, but maybe it was common in Coventry in previous centuries. If not, then part of our family maybe descendants of John. I remember visiting an elderly 'aunt' who was bedridden in the 1950's and lived in Sovereign Road, Earlsdon or a road nearby. Unfortunately any members of the family I could ask have all passed. Maybe someone on the forum might clarify.

There was a Jeff Bottrill in my year at Woodlands School (1961). Do not know where he lived.

In "Moments in time" - The History of the Coventry watch industry volume 1, it says "in 1747 the firm of VALE was established, Samuel Vale serving as Mayor on 4 separate occasions. The firm subsequently became Vale & Howlette, then Vale, Howlette, Carr and Rotherham. Richard Kevitt Rotherham was a former apprentice of the firm which eventually became Rotherham and Sons. Rotherham went on to become the major employer and manufacturer and came to enjoy an international reputation. By 1899 they employed 400-500 people plus about 200 outworkers and produced 100 watches a day".

Thanks Midland Red. So it was 1750 on it! Anne, yes I read that pamphlet, but here is the exact example you quote. 1747 it's 1750 on the blue plate. It's very doubtful it is 1747 because he was (Samuel) apprentice to a Coleshill clockmaker from 1743-1750. This guy wouldn't be able to start a business halfway through his apprenticeship, he also wouldn't have any money. Also he couldn't access any TW Charity money enabling him to set up a business in Coventry, because his apprenticeship was Coleshill. His father Benjamin borrowed £30 around this time which was never paid back, and also in the council minute book there's a mystery Samuel Vale, weaver, which takes another £30. This I guess is how he paid Richard Holland, but hey ho,I did this research 20 years ago. Nobody was that interested then, so I moved on to other things. It's all from memory, I just couldn't find all the proof easily.

Thanks MR, yes that's the photo of the plaque Afraid there's egg over my face - abject apologies for the typo, of course it was 1750 not 1850 Anyway whatever, it turned out to be a very interesting tale of Coventry history With watchmakers in our family, I obviously heard a lot about them as a child, but unfortunately very little lodged in my brain (mind you I always knew I didn't have many)

Thank you, Heathite, Mick, for your interesting responses. Obviously, Bottrill is a much more common name than I thought, therefore there is little likelihood that part of our extended family was/is related to John!

I thought I had better show you a couple of watches that I had been banging on about in previous posts. You don't have to be the sharpest tool in the box to realise there's something missing off them - well they are 260 years old. Unfortunately some dispicable lowlife in a fraction of a second has wrenched the silver cases off the movements, something that is common to 75% of these old watches, and in the process destroyed beautiful Coventry paircases, the date, maker, etc gone forever. Just so he can make a couple of bob on the scrap silver. However, this worked to my advantage as I could not have afforded to buy a complete watch of this date. The first photo is of a Samuel Vale movement - as he worked alone only from 1752-1760 it must be quite rare. The second photo shows a Richard Holland movement. I bought this from a dealer and you can see it's been tinkered with but he wouldn't haggle and it was a high price. Richard seems to have stayed around Earl Street for a while after he sold the firm, but he had married a Northampton lass and I think he went over there. It's possible that maybe in an old Coventry house attic or cellar (there must be one remaining that the council haven't pulled down) an even earlier Gabriel Holland or Ebenezer or John watch might be found? I have only ever seen a grandfather clock by John.

Proper craftsmanship - nice Moriarty

N.Y. Coventry was at the cutting edge of development in the 18th century. I had written a bit more on the history, but I had such a problem downloading the photo's (they are in the wrong order at the moment) and kept losing the text, so this will have to do.