Coventry Crosses

Rob I used your name because it's your topic, a simple acknowledgement to you. From what I see of the photo of the cross next to the church, people are trying to bring back the past, or recall the past. I have no idea what they have in mind - it's not an issue, it's just my opinion, words don't carry the same meaning today as they did in my day. To me a petition is a much stronger word than discussion.

Kaga, I believe it's great to let the new generation see how Coventry was before the war devastation. It took a lot of 'patching' up and catching up after the war. I never got the chance to see how the old cathedral or the cross looked in all its glory as well as many more of Coventry's landmarks. You were lucky to live in what I would call the Coventry dreamtime when it was more rural and beautiful countryside. Hope all is well for you in these difficult times. Take care.

Kaga, the cross wasn't trying to recreate the past, it was a nod to how much of the old city had been lost. It was originally proposed before the war but wasn't built until the 60s. It was a pleasant bit of street art that didn't intrude on the churches but was instead dwarfed by them. It was removed to build a bit more patio space for a restaurant. Admittedly that may be more important than was the case pre pandemic but it's a real shame that a popular bit of art was ruined for a bit more table space. A petition isn't much of a big deal these days but it can remind those in authority that somebody cares about something. Alternatively it can reassure them that that few people will make trouble.

A nice view of Coventry Cross prior to removal.

A nice reminder, Prof. There are pictures of how they built it in the City Architects images at the Herbert and they explain why it was so hard to take apart. There were rods connecting the levels.

No chance then, Helen, of ever seeing that cross again! What idiots!

I apologise to all, that I may have offended on this topic, Because it's a history topic, I can only look back to the famous structure built in 1543, that lasted until 1771, and had nothing to do with the market, only that it was set in the same place as the old market cross that lay in rubble. As the sun set behind the River Thames in 1540 three men, one of which one was the Lord Mayor of London, discussed the building of a great beautiful stone pyramidal structure with biblical scenes adorned with sculpted statues in 18 niches. It would be three storeys high, hexagonal in shape, each side would be seven feet at the base, finely diminishing, Each storey would be twenty feet above the other and laid on four steps base, this in the centre of Coventry. The rubble of the old market cross in Cross Cheaping was cleared, and the first stone laid in 1541. The butchers of Butcher Row were its best protectors. All this a good century before Michelangelo built St Peter's in the Vatican.

This is a picture I took, not great, but better than the 'nothing' the council has left us with.

Osmiroid, thank you so much, I think it is of real value now we have lost it in physical form. This was a gift to our city by the Coventry Boy Foundation. They donated it, and if any of them are still with us they must be disgusted. I met Rolf Holberg, the architect, at his home in Coventry, and he gave me a blueprint.

I've photographed it several times, the first time was in 1976 An image of the original cross appears on the pub sign outside the Coventry Cross in the Burges

Yes, some 6 square, each 7 feet wide at the base. Some of the statues came from Coventry's Whitefriars who, I believe, were Carmelites. From Dugdale's description, the flags the arms of England and the rose of Lancaster, 57 feet high with 18 niches for statues. It must have been a beautiful structure that held a lot of biblical scripture. Book stalls of the 1920/30s had many books about it. When I was very small we attended church twice a week, the week night, stories were read from the bible, by a look-a-like monk of Robin Hood times, Pop Barnes, and every birthday, presents were always bibles, books of biblical stories etc. Still have my mother's bible. Many times the cross was mentioned, doves were mentioned, we had Dovedale Avenue, not far away were Paradise Row, Eden Street, Cross Street, but to a small boy how could one image the sermon on the mount and such stories? Huge buildings of the bible other than churches we could not see in Coventry. By the time I was 18 it all came to light for me, our headquarters were in the Carmelite Fort or Monastery half-way up Mount Carmel, and was there now for me to see everything I had heard about as a child came flooding back, and in the mountainous country, even miracles seemed possible - and could have been badly needed in those days. There were many buildings that reminded me of Dugdale's Cross of Coventry.

Thanks to Kaga I revived research into the cross. I can't say 'the original cross' because there were others before it. Here is the original pub sign likeness in MR's photo from Rob's wonderful collection. At first I doubted this picture because you can't see the spires, and the buildings didn't seem to fit the map but I've solved both those issues and this view fits the facts as l know them. The problem for me is that the descriptions vary and I'm not sure about the full height of the thing. I'm not sure if the four base steps are counted as part of the full height or not or if the very top bits were last minute add ons that might have boosted the height beyond the planned scale. Much like 21st century tower envy the Coventry cross funders were determined to build bigger than Abingdon. Abingdon's cross sat on 8 steps and had eight sides at the base but switched to 6 at the second level, whereas Coventry settled on six sides from the get go. Coventry's was supposed to be more lavishly decorated and, to modern eyes, would have probably looked a bit gaudy. There are several descriptions of the figures on the Coventry cross and they start at the south face and then list them in order. Unfortunately they don't say which way round the list goes - clockwise or as if you were reading from left to right? Bottom level - King Henry IV (another reference puts this as Henry VI), King John, King Edward I, King Henry II, King Richard I, King Henry V. Middle level - King Edward III, St Michael, King Henry III, St George, King Richard II (one reference puts this as Richard III but unlikely). The last figure isn't always mentioned but was originally supposed to be Jesus. In 1608/9 it was apparently replaced by Lady Godiva on her ride as images of Jesus were considered Papist. However a nuddy lady was deemed too naughty and in 1613 she was replaced with the Arms of the King - James I. Top level - Every other statue was a "Religious Habit" by which they mean a monk or friar. Supposedly a White Friar, a Grey Friar and a Benedictine (Black Monk). However, while there is no record of the order of the Religious Habits, one occupied the southern plinth, followed by St Peter, a Religious Habit, King/St James Minor/Lesser/Less (likely to be a saint, rather than a king), a Religious Habit and then St Christopher. Curiously, the cross construction started in 1541, just as the Dissolution came to an end but it would have been in planning for decades. Not unsurprisingly some of the statues came from Whitefriars but might it look a bit provocative to stick these chaps at the top of the cross during Henry VIII's reign? However while Henry may have launched the Church of England and despite being its Head, Henry never became a Protestant himself. The situation was purely about wanting Anne Boleyn, a male heir and the riches the Church possessed. Towards the end of his reign Henry passed the Six Articles (1539) which meant the Church remained Catholic. Protestants who denied the Catholic faith were persecuted and even burned. It also explains why the image of Jesus wasn't removed until James I. To secure his throne he was very anti Catholic and much of the remaining richness of decoration in churches and cathedrals was removed, leaving white painted walls and plain window glass. Another victim of Puritan cleansing were mythical beasts, so it's surprising that the unicorns holding flags and cantering round the carving survived.

Helen The old market cross built in 1423 was so dangerous in 1510 that some portions of it were removed, but it was not totally demolished until 1537, having existed for 114 years. The Abingdon cross was erected in 1442 and was sawn down in 1642. But efforts were made to erect a different cross, and donations were given. The first stone was laid by Cuthbert Joyner, Mayor, 1541-2 and the bells did ring. 57 feet from the top of the steps, the canopy (upper storeys) beautifully adorned with statues, the pillars, pinnacles and arches (flying buttresses) were enriched with a variety of figures, flags, doves etc. The said persons who built it to be paid when their assignments were completed, the assignments were each storey - all persons in agreement. But the dimensions and details of Abingdon's cross, in a London museum, its sister at Coventry was larger and the ornamentations and details a lot bolder.

Morning Kaga. Where is that reference of 57 feet from the top of the steps please? I've seen references to 57 feet but not where that was measured from. Also I've seen 45 feet from the top of the steps plus ornamentation and even taller to ensure that it topped Abingdon. It seems logical to count the steps as part of the cross but I'm not sure they did. Part of me thinks it must have been that way for it to be visible at a distance when surrounded by 4 storey houses plus roofs as can be seen on the prospects drawn of the city. The top ornamentation looks very much like decoration just to add a bit more height but was there 12 feet of it?

Helen, William Reader. But I think we should look at the time period, and what was going on. Henry VIII was on the throne, he bequeathed 200 francs in 1541 to the mayor and council of Coventry towards the cross. Other donations followed. Sir William Hollys was Lord Mayor of London, born in Coventry. Henry was supreme head of the English Church. To me the building was of enormous importance in the Midlands, a religious masterpiece at a time when the old Europe was changing fast. When Pope Leo died, Henry was asked to stand as arbiter to the Christian empire, Cardinal Wolsey as the next Pope, but he failed in his quest. Catherine of Aragon failed to give him a son. He thought that God was punishing him for marrying his deceased brother's wife, he was most troubled. A mark was worth 14 shillings and 4 pence in old money.