Coventry Crosses

Hi Rob, I don`t know if I`ve done the right thing, but I have signed the petition using your "my account" thingy, I filled in the first line of my address and my post code, then it asked me to click a box that said "I confirm that I live, work or study in Coventry" which I didn`t click, then I fell foul of the dreadful Kapcha, finally got it right after managing to identify a chimney, but when I clicked the "sign" bit it returned me to the box I hadn`t clicked. I decided to confirm that I was born in Coventry, evacuated from Coventry, received my education in Coventry, went to Tech in Coventry (worked on building the Lanchester and loads of other buildings around Coventry). Bought the A1 to Scotland, then emigrated there for 20 years, then returned and settled in yellow belly county and now visit Coventry regularly, contribute and study at this wonderful University of Coventry namely this forum Historic Coventry (even if I don`t contribute, I read it most days). So all in all if anybody asks I consider I fulfil all the requirements of the confirmation. Oh, when I view the mess from the elevated section of the ring road as I drive in, I prefer not to comment.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, it definitely sounds like you more than qualify!

Hello Rob, Have I got this right!!!??? Coventry Council are pulling down the Coventry Cross. I walk past it every time I go into the Herbert and never cease to admire the structure. Of course it is nothing like the original but then it's not the original but a gift to the city. Nevertheless it is decorative and fits in with its situation perfectly being near the Cathedral - and the Slug and Lettuce! Whatever next! Perhaps it will be Whitefriars Workhouse - after all we need new student high rise accommodation like a hole in the head and where better to put these eyesores than in the middle of the ring road - excellent choice NOT. I come into Coventry on the bus from the Park and Ride from the Kenilworth area and am shocked. Did anyone know that Coventry (our medieval City of Culture) is now known among certain of the locals - or the ones I talk to on the bus as "Student City" - and whatever is the Theme Park doing in New Union Street!? Is Coventry determined to become a laughing stock!!?? I am horrified. Frances

Hello Frances, It's certainly pretty scary to think that our councillors are capable of thinking along such lines - and even more so considering our city's pending "cultural" status. How anybody could possibly equate the demolition of a major monument with the gaining of a few square yards for a coffee shop is completely beyond me. We can only hope that common sense will eventually prevail - if any still exists!

While I agree that the Cross shouldn't be got rid of, I'd much prefer it to be in a more prominent position - it's hidden where it is and doesn't tell you anything about the siting or purpose of the original cross, which had absolutely nothing to do with the church. It was more a sign of a market or trading place and so should be either in Broadgate or the precinct. Much of the rest I'm afraid I find alarmist. Yes, Coventry is a student city and what is wrong with that? It's bringing young people into a city they probably wouldn't otherwise go near and are spending their money in our economy and creating jobs at both the universities and local businesses they use. They're potential residents and families of this city in the future. The universities can help encourage other industry into the area with their research and reputations in certain aspects. Students nowadays are (on the whole) far less rowdy than in the past. Now you have to pay for the courses and don't get grants they take it far more seriously rather than in the past where it was largely a jolly. At the moment there is a need for more student accommodation, as demand is outstripping supply, hence why so many of the buildings have been built in so short a space of time while plans for offices etc have got nowhere because the demand just isn't there. Do you realise how many of the houses in the surroundings areas like Spon End, Earlsdon and Stoke are now multiple occupancy rented out to students, thus preventing people getting on the housing ladder as private landlords buy them up? These student blocks are starting to see some of these come back on the market and this must be a positive. As for the theme park, I agree I find it's location next to the third spire just a little jarring and would prefer it further away, but it's actually much less intrusive I find that Greyfriars House it replaces. Also, City of Culture is a many faceted thing, not just history. It encompasses art and sculpture (from classical to modern and even graffiti), music (again from classical to modern things like rap), theatre and film, literature, architecture (from our medieval heritage through Victorian, post war modernism and post-modern), food (traditional to modern cuisine inspired by foreign dishes), sport, industry, learning and many more things besides. It is not about us being a medieval city - if it was just a celebration of our medieval heritage perhaps we'd do best to just dump many tonnes of horse manure around the city streets and have smoke machines constantly pumping noxious air into the city centre? Although I know on the whole this post has been critical of your points, please don't take it personally - I'm just pointing out counter arguments to what you've asserted and as a discussion forum this is a place of debate and I am more than happy for you to criticise what I've said.

AD said, the purpose of the original cross, which had nothing to do with the church. The city annals inform us that in the following year, 1609, the image of CHRIST, not according probably with Puritan ideas of the local Governors, was taken down from the cross and a figure of Godiva substituted. This was, however, shortly afterwards exchanged for the King's arms. (It went on to say) men in special authority, one of them pulled down the picture of CHRIST from the market cross as a monument of superstition, having been there many hundreds of years, and placed instead a picture of a naked lady without superstition. August 1771; agreed by the house that the inhabitants of Cross Cheaping be at liberty, and they are here authorised, if they see fit, to take down the cross. The stones, statues and mouldings of the cross were thus distributed amongst the citizens generally. An Alderman of the city took the four statues and placed them in his garden. When he was dying, he directed the statues be given to the Corporation, accordingly removed and placed in St. Mary's Hall.

At Redfin lane, situated between Kenilworth and Berkswell, was an old stone farm house, 'The Image House', so named from the fact that several of the statues from the Coventry Cross were removed and set up there, on it being pulled down in the year 1771 by an Alderman of the City named Brockle, who at the time possessed the place. We are told that the statue of King Henry - which now adorns the principal staircase of St Mary's Hall Coventry - for many years stood as a faithful sentinel watching by the side of the backdoor, whilst the other figures had more lowly positions allotted to them, differing altogether from their original and elevated character. The statue of St Peter was stood on a wall, where the farm cock perched on his shoulder would wake the morn., while St Christopher, a fellow saint, was placed at his feet in the pig sty. When he died they were restored to a more befitting place, in the niches of the Oriel window of St Mary's Hall.

I don't have a say in this because it's not my money that will be used to move it but I think it's in the wrong place. While rather magnificent, it's put to shame by the buildings round it. I walked passed it several times before I saw it. I was too busy looking up. The worry with moving is that it could be damaged in the move or that it might become a more prominent target for vandals.

When I said it had nothing to do with the church I meant the specific church, i.e. it wasn't a 'marker' for either St Michaels or Holy Trinity. At the time of the original cross religion was the accepted understanding of the world (and still is today) and thus it would've been very strange for it to not have had some form of religious symbolism upon it.

AD, The way I read it, it goes back further than that. The market place began with the selling of produce from the Priory, but that was only allowed outside the boundary of both church and priory, all priories and monasteries were really begging houses, so they did their begging outside the boundaries too. I believe the church owned the land, and dictated what could happen, and where. I also believe they owned the churchyard down to Broadgate, and to me they would not have a spice market in the churchyard. I'm sure they would still have the deeds if some authority approached them. Now, ironically, the only time the market place looked like the 16th century was in 1940 when it was a flat waste land, except it wasn't covered in grass and trees. It also was the time it ended the true market place, for it ended the old seed merchants, the old wrought iron forge, stables and horses, etc. that went back forever. Now, believe what you may, but I am the only person on this forum that can relate to those days, for 17 years, several days a week, I visited and traded with the last miller, in or around Coventry, ground the corn, watched men sell and buy hayricks, corn-stacks, animals, and poultry. Watched men plunge knives into sheep to relieve gas, and a host of other country ways and customs going back centuries. I'm no longer a citizen of Coventry, but just a passing thought; this new modern statue has no resemblance at all of the 16th century cross, neither is there anything that resembles the old market. The only thing near to that era is the church, so why not let it stay close to those buildings that it is trying to belong to in time.

Hello AD, I am very pleased that you have a solid view on this subject, as do I, although as I see it your viewpoint seems to be mainly focused on economy and how we can help the students regardless of the aesthetic cost to the city. As I mentioned before, I come into Coventry on the Park and Ride and last week I found myself in conversation with two gentlemen who were recently retired and were coming back to look at the city for the first time in twenty years. First of all they were very pleased that they did not have to pay a charge for parking their car as is the case in Nottingham Park and Ride. Not good for the Coventry economy though. Then we got on the bus! The first architectural masterpiece (please excuse the sarcasm) was the big building which I identified for them as "Ikea". Well it's good for the economy of the city. The fact that it was raining did not help in viewing the landscape - well student flats! The students are of course an asset especially on a Saturday night (ever walked through Coventry on a Saturday night ). Financially poor!!! It was always my belief that a university place was something to be proud of - now it is regarded as a "right". My biggest grievance is of course Whitefriars Workhouse - plenty of graffiti there. Should we leave it as a prime example of Coventry's cultural status? Perhaps not; and surely it could never have been done by the students after a trip to the pub. The position is right in the middle of the Ring Road and yes, loads of student accommodation all around - forget about its historic importance. It is certainly not economically viable. As for the Coventry Cross - just leave it where it is. Out of harms way! It is near both the cathedral and the pub - where better? It will suit all 'tastes'. Frances

That's fine. To my knowledge Crosses of this type were quite common throughout the country in medieval towns as a means of indicating a market, although at the time any such markets would have been heavily linked to either religious,defensive or royal structures which would've driven all local economies. I just think it's a bit wasted in the spot it's in - it may not be as impressive as the original but it seems a shame for it to be hidden as it is.

Hi Frances. I'm not all for how to help the students at the expense of the aesthetic - there is plenty I would happily change to make the place look better but I do also look at it in a pragmatic way and consider the economic benefits of doing so. We could make it look nice but if it's costing loads of money and making none in the long term it's going to cost this city far more in terms of heritage because any funds will dry up enabling them to be maintained. I do think it's good the park and ride is free and I've long advocated for a hop on/off service tht goes on a loop around the city centre to stop buses having to travel through it and reduce the traffic, noise and pollution. I've also suggested validated parking for those people who buy something within the city centre. I can't say whether it would successfully make more people use the city centre or not, but I feel it's worth giving it a go. Even though IKEA is useful to the city economy I'm no fan of the IKEA building itself - blank walls facing streets, car park on ground level - odd shapes creating unnecessary vast open spaces. They could at least use the space for display or even advertising but nothing. I've been frustrated at the number of shops in retail parks on the outskirts that could easily be accommodated centrally but for me IKEA is one that probably better suited an outer location as it is in effect just a massive warehouse. It's not alone in relating poorly to the street. The rear wall of Primark, the side of the baths, the car park opposite IKEA, the side of the Premier Inn - all featureless and don't relate at all to the street. In many ways the new students blocks at least do tend to interact with the street level in some way. I agree a university education has become massively devalued now and like many things has sadly gone more towards an American style model where it's been monetarised so uni's add as many courses as possible to get the course fees. It's annoying that at a time when uni was largely the preserve of the privileged few they got it for free, along with grants and the ability to 'sign on' but now it's been opened up it's become financially burdensome to those arguably most in need of the opportunity. I'm not trying to make out students aren't capable of being messy, noisy and misbehaved and don't go out and let their hair down - far from it - but the attitude and behaviour of many of them is remarkably decent. As for the graffiti - I can't say for definite is wasn't students, but can you show it definitely was? I'd say it's far, far more likely to have been done by local kids who sadly aren't ever likely to go into further education. When I was talking about cultural graffiti I wasn't really talking about things like 'tagging' "I WOZ ERE" kind of stuff - there are some remarkable pieces of street art that in a gallery setting or on canvas would have people raving about them. Whitefriars has become isolated and certainly can't be made the asset it might be with the ring road etc (although the new uni buildings does make it a bit more accessible), but at the same time we shouldn;t focus all our attention upon one particular era of architecture. The post war stuff of the precinct, tower blocks etc and even the ring road have people arguing for their preservation and even listing due to their historic importance, even though they're massively flawed and arguably restrict the city centre's ability to adapt to changing trends. It won't be that long before stuff like the uni library and science buildings are argued in a similar stance as well for their 'uniqueness' and eventually probably even some of these new student blocks due to their significance during this period of the city centre's history and the running of it's economy. Is that any different to someone wanting a church/factory/shop/cinema/workers houses from a particular era saved as it reflects the way things were at that time? In the future this period of university expansion and it's effect on the local economy will be in the list along with the castle, churches, dyeing and weaving, watch, bicycle and car industries. It's an industry that has led to an upturn in the local economy and will inevitably eventually decline and lead to stagnation and decay until the next thing comes along. AD

During the life of the Coventry Cross there were about ten people burnt at the stake in Coventry, and about thirty were hanged, beheaded, or executed some way or other in the city.

Oh dear, the petition to save Coventry Cross seems to have stuck in the 400s and been superceded by traffic problems in Allesley Old Road. I wonder what can boost the numbers now?