Coventry Crosses

Helen, I'm rather disappointed, I expected the bottom storey to be open with some biblical scene, like the last supper or such on the cross. Cannot see seventeen statues on here. For all I read, it is nothing like I had imagined.

The other statues are round the back. 6 sides, 3 levels. If there had been a biblical scene it wouldn't have survived King James I. One of the reasons I'm working with images is because they really do paint a thousand words and more. This image matches well with the one in Dugdale's book. One irksome issue is that they all seem to have sketched the same side if the dragons, lions, bears and unicorns are to be judged. The Beighton etching shows blank shields, whereas Dugdale's shows coats of arms. That agrees with a description that says the shields were deliberately painted over, so words are important too.

Hi Rob. Let's go back to the beginning of the great cross of 1542. The market cross previously had lasted for 114 years, but in 1510 became dangerous and parts were removed, and eventually it crumbled. Thomas Bond offers £6 13s in his will towards another cross to be built, and John Haddon leaves £20 for the same. Sir William Hollys at this stage offers nil. In 1509 Henry VIII, on the crest of a wave of popularity, married Catherine of Aragon, his deceased brother's wife, against the Pope's Christian rules. Henry was now supreme ruler of the Christian faith in England, so he changed a few rules, pulled a few tricks and married Catherine. In 1511 Catherine gave him a son, the boy died within six weeks, but after daughters and miscarriages was unable to present him with a son. Henry thought it was unfruitful because it was against God's law, because he had been unlawful to marry his brother's wife. There was a lot of history with the story. When Pope Maximilian died in 1519, Henry and two others stood for election to be the leader of Christendom in Europe, but he lost that too. Now Henry had a very troubled mind, God had forsaken him and Hollys is Mayor of London - did they talk in secret? Did Henry think if he helped to build/pay for some very religious building, it would appease God?

Hi Kaga. When I first read Whitley's book about the cross I read the lines "Treasurer's Account," occur the following item:- "35 Henry VIII. (1543), Pd. to Mathew Gilder and John Adkins for gildyng ye Cross." To mean that Henry VIII had paid for the work but in reality the reference to Henry VIII is a date - the 35th year of his reign. It is the Corporation's Treasurer who paid from collected funds. Any reference to Henry VIII has to be assessed in the same light. It may well be that Henry VIII funded religious building works but I'm not sure that the Coventry Cross was one of them. I'm also not sure how religious market crosses were. There's obviously some connection but they seem to be more about civic prestige and commerce than piety.

Helen, on the front and sides of the cross I can only count five statues, the same would be on the other half - that doesn't sound like anywhere near seventeen to me. Helen, I read that too. What I'm suggesting is that Hollys had known about the Coventry cross for years (coming from Cov but mayor of London) but offered nothing to Coventry towards a new cross. Only when Henry was greatly troubled by his marriage to his brother's wife, losing a son, losing the election and a bad accident, setbacks, etc he may have seen a way to appease God through funds to a city's new cross, through secretly talking to Hollys, and only then did Hollys offer to swell the funds. I know it's a long shot, but they did have queer ideas in those days about religion, and changed their ways to suit the moves of society. In 1957 I went back to Rome, asked questions, came up with the answer. Maybe, but if some historian can tell me different, then I'll be happy to think different.

On a better resolution of the image it's possible to see more of the statues but it's limited because it's a foot and a half sketch trying to capture something 57ft + steps. I think that the niche to the right of the middle level might be the one with the royal shield. In Henry VIII's day it would have been an image of Jesus. It's possible that Henry suffered a fit of guilt but the Dissolution of the Monasteries and pocketing the proceeds might have been more offensive to the Pope than marrying his brother's wife. Using plundered statues from Whitefriars on the Cross was something of an insult to injury. But it's possible.

Clever montage with Cathedral spire.

It might not be a montage Prof - here's a genuine photo that I took back in 2006 from a slightly different angle....

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yesterday. There was a report on the Coventry Telegraph website 'plans revealed to return Coventry Cross to the city centre'. I didn't have time to post it at the time but there was a CGI image of it positioned on a raised platform between Primark and Holy Trinity. Not easy to find it again: link.

Thanks, McSporran, for this, but are they mad. as well as cost-cutting, to replace the base with GLASS? It would ruin the whole appearance of what Rolf Hellberg (architect) produced for the Coventry Boy Foundation gift to the city. I am appalled! If you are going to do the job, do it properly, PLEASE!

I agree with you Prof. Somehow it doesn't look right. However, you never know, whoever may be considering moving it yet again in the future. Like Lady G. Seems as if nothing is intended to be a permanent fixture in the old city. GLASS, cheap as chips!

Our Mandy took this photo for me on Sunday, showing the beginnings of the erection of the new Coventry Cross. It appears to be an octagonal base, which is a good sign that it'll comply in some way with the original.

Thanks Mandy and Rob. It will be an interesting sight when we go for breakfast. I hope that it will look good when it's finished. I worry that the money available for the new version may have influenced what will result but I prefer this location to the previous one.

Rob, I can't get over the idea of the glass bottom. Does it replace the steps and why? I am sure Rolf Holberg who designed it would not approve. He lived on Kenilworth Road. I met him as I hoped to write a booklet for the opening but because there were changes then in my life it did not materialise. I even had a meeting with my former headmaster Fred West of Tech and Woodlands as he was in charge of local history! I suppose soon we shall know how they spoiled it.

The glass is supposed to part replace the bottom tier of the structure. Whether they will do that remains to be seen. I'm dubious at the idea they were able to remove it all without damage.