Broadgate

That would have suited Mr Gibson fine, as he didn't like people walking across his square. You had to follow his routes, you know. He didn't like people deviating from his direction. He's probably gyrating in his grave now. It was being dug up when I got here, but I notice that all the postcard images are positioned to hide the fact that two sides were made up of the backsides of buildings and scrub land. Still, at least now it has some restaurants in it. Before we start squabbling, the 1939 plan (Gibson?) drew up showed the area between the Cathedral, Broadgate and Holy Trinity as an open space (He wanted to demolish the County Court building) with a line of buildings along Pepper Lane. Quite a neat plan, but the rest of the area appears to have been demolished and left as empty spaces. Very odd. Ernest Ford's 1941 proposal shows the same layout for Broadgate, with the site of Owen Owen reconstructed and thus retaining the links down the Burges and Trinity Street. Smithford Street was also retained and the layout of the rest of the centre quite similar to what was there before. The 1941 plan (Gibson) shows the city centre remodelled as to be totally unrecognisable, with about 4 pre-war buildings preserved - Hay Lane, Pepper Lane, Cuckoo Lane, all gone, along with the County Court, the Golden Cross. Broadgate is, interestingly, a dual carriageway here linked directly to Trinity. (The closest I can come up with is Plymouth.) The 1942 model is similarly destructive, with Broadgate still as a road but with no remains of the high street or Pepper Lane and a large grass area between Broadgate and the Cathedral. There's a large empty space where Hertford Street was, forming a triangle with an interesting looking street running from the ring road to Broadgate. But it's hardly recognisable as Coventry. The 1945 plan seems to go back to the 1939 idea, but still with most of the pre-war city gone - High Street totally gone and replaced, Hay Lane gone, Cuckoo Lane/High Street replaced with a triangle of buildings that presumably offered a decent frontage onto the grassed in area. Still, overall, barely recognisable as Coventry but the area around the Precinct and Broadgate/Trinity Street is starting to look familiar. The 1958 model shows Hay Lane and Cuckoo Lane being retained but with a building on what is now Cuckoo Lane and I think a building on the site of Cathedral Lanes shopping centre. Much of the precinct has been completed as have a few civic buildings. High Street has been shortened, Broadgate is a square traffic island and where HSB is now looks to be a small tower block. Quite interesting seeing how it evolved, but it's quite incredible just how determined they were to destroy what was left. We are quite lucky that the oasis around the Cathedral survived. That is, of course, the only nice part of the city centre. If we'd got the 1941 plan then it would all be horrible.

The standout thing you said there, I think, is not fixing up Smithford Street, like letting the Germans win that one.

Yes, I think Smithford Street being restored would have been good. It's interesting looking at these plans. Some of the earlier ideas are OK, but a lot of it was back to front with large enclosed areas with frontages inward facing. Broadgate appears to have been intended to be a traffic island and a strange V shape flanked by buildings (it looks as if the County Court was almost certainly going to go, even right up until the 1960s) leading to the Cathedral.

flapdoodle, yes it came out wrong, I tried to erase it but it came out double, sorry about that.

No worries, Kaga... Keep up the good work!

Hi all Last year saw a trading milestone, when for the first time, here in the UK, internet retail trading exceeded footfall, over-the-counter trading. Over the pond, huge giant, "Wal-Mart" have just announce the closure of 250 stores, citing internet trading as the main reason. The battles that we have seen with UK Tesco, & our beloved Co-op, affected in much the same way. With the high costs associated with running a shop or store, there is a critical point where without adequate footfall, the businesses just will not survive. As I walked into the main arcade on Friday, the biggest advert was Debenhams advertising their online click & collect service. It would appear that unless a trader is providing a "verb" (a service) as opposed to just supplying an item, they may not be around for much longer. So, what will happen to Broadgate? More cafes & restaurants? The thing is, they rely on folk coming in to shop in our centre. We cannot turn the clock back. There will not be many trading winners in our city centres, I believe, unless a new theme of shopping comes into being. What could that be?

In Western societies the last refuge of the desperate is to generate money by selling alcohol.

I think they might end up combining warehouses/production, offices and retail outlets all in one space? Ground floor a shop space, upper floors the warehouse, top floors office and management. Would be useful if flooding occurs too, as much of the stock would be higher up. Trouble is the space these take up would require massive spaces and would things like large delivery lorries really be viable in spaces such as city centres without a significant redesign? Ironically, the RR could prove useful in this respect, although it would move the retail core to the space between the RR and inner circulatory road, leaving the precinct unviable. There will possibly be some that will take longer to turn over to almost solely internet sales, like fashion, as people want to try things on/make sure they fit, but even then there is still likely to be a significant proportion moving towards internet. In the end I think city centres will rely very heavily on entertainment and leisure, but even a lot of this is moving online with streaming and online gaming. Look at how theatre is now seeing a lot of the NT/RSC live being shown in cinemas, meaning those plays can make even more money without having to tour or put on extra shows.

Hi all Another factor that is evermore significant is the current home cottage industry. People running side-lines from their home is nothing new. In the past, to do so successfully either needed a number of cogs in the chain so as to ensure that everything could be linked up, but nowadays, the internet is the means of linking. Living in our residential homes, there are in place planning regulations, so as to ensure that no one can suddenly start up a factory business next door. It was commonplace to find a piano or music tutor using their home as a school room, but even that could draw attention to some planning regulations on some housing estates. What I am witnessing though is wholesale manufacturing being carried out on folk's homes. I know of a dressmaker in Leicestershire, who along with another relative living in Yorkshire, has a huge home spun enterprise on the go. I mean huge, a million turnover. They have modern machinery (big sewing machines with thread & material guides) that all runs very quietly, inside soundproofed rooms, which they really are, so the only nuisance might be the car boot deliveries to the delivery company that they use for shipping all over. In the past, a business like that needed a shopping centre so as to maintain the flow, but the likes of eBay & Amazon do away with the need for that.

I don't think retail is dead - it may be in Coventry city centre, but this city is a special case and was planned to die anyway. There are a lot of reasons why retailers fail, and the Internet is not always to blame. Bad business decisions and poor brands are probably the biggest reason for retailers failing. A few years back out of town retail was affecting city centre retail, especially when supermarkets started setting out to kill the competition by selling certain items at cost or at a loss (Books, for example.) It's come back to bite them, though, and they are now under threat from discount retailers - although I'd personally rather pay more than have to spend more than 20 seconds inside some of those 'cheap' stores. I quite like the more European style where the 'centres' are densely populated areas around urban grids with a lot of people living, working, and spending their leisure time in the same place. The UK adopted a policy of moving everyone out and turning city centres into dreadful shopping precincts packed with the same chain stores. We don't really do socialising (Our equivalent was 'pub culture' which wasn't particularly inclusive.) Over the last few weeks I've been to Birmingham, Leamington and Solihull. Leamington seems to be filling up with restaurants. Birmingham is stupendously busy, as was Solihull. It makes you wonder if the co-op had any business sense they could have seen the gap in the market in Coventry/Warwickshire for a *decent* department stores and turned their corporation street store around with a modern rebranding and some stock that might appeal to the under 80s.

How I wish the planners had left Broadgate alone. What was wrong with it years ago? We had the lovely greenery on the island in the middle with Lady Godiva standing proud. Our buses were far more convenient to catch when they stopped by the elephant, or outside what was Owen Owens. All we have now is a mass of paving. Concrete Coventry. I know many of the older Forum members agree as I have read their comments. I try to avoid going into Coventry very often these days - the only saving grace for me is the market! It is such a trek now to catch my bus home all the way from the market to the bottom of the Burges, where there is no proper shelter, only a betting shop, and no seats on which to rest heavy shopping or sit down. On coming into Coventry there is a slight improvement now the bus stop outside what was the old Gas Showrooms has been reinstated as previously while work was taking place in Corporation Street my bus used to go to the furthest possible stop in the bus station, which meant a long trek up Trinity Street. I spoke to a lady the other day who said she lives in Wheelwright Lane and hasn't been into Coventry for 35 years! I expect she shops at the much more convenient Bedworth or Nuneaton, as I tend to do myself. That's my moan for the day!

Yes, I entirely agree with Janey. Broadgate may not have been the most beautiful town centre but at least it was of its time and worked well.

The problem with the 'old' Broadgate was that the focal point of the city centre was completely inaccessible. It was just a traffic island with a statue on it, so it actually divided the area up. Originally the traffic was two way, with bus stops all round it. A quite terrible design that was slowly, in stages, opened up and integrated into the centre. I don't get there very often these days but I think it is now a good space where events can be staged, as well as being the beginnings of a restaurant quarter which is long overdue. I remember there was a very good artisan food event on Heritage Weekend which was the last time I was there.

You seem to contradict yourself somewhat, MisterD-Di, by saying it (the focal point of the city centre) was completely inaccessible, yet observing that the island had bus stops all around it. In those days, that was the way for the majority to reach 'town' (the centre of the city), but that access was removed by the planners who transferred those central bus stops to areas from which any passenger alighting would have a climb up to the centre. I'm sure this removal of direct access to the centre of town has much to do with its decline.

Definitely MR, It's not what the public want or need for convenience as it was in 'those days', it's what the planners want in the name of progress (or whatever kick they get out of it)! Besides paving costs less to maintain than a beautiful island of greenery being a far more welcoming sight when entering the city.