West Orchard

Thanks for the info by the way. When I went looking for the view, I was searching for a building that matched the height. I know that it makes things easier but I resent that modern industrial buildings are spread over wider areas rather than built on multiple floors.

Helen, I disagree, the Sherbourne was much higher up the Burges than the Rex, in fact it was close to that burnt out bus. Now Neil's photo 120 is a mere training exercise, the water is not touching the buildings, and there is no fire. The Rex was hit before the Blitz I believe, and the pub on the corner and 4/5 shops up from the corner of the Burges were not hit by HE and saved from fire simply because they had water from the river. Now the firemen did not need that water power, five powerful hoses would not be directed like that if for real, they are not hitting the building. Also, note there is no senior officer present yet less than hundred yards away there's two senior officers using chimney hoses on debris that people don't wish to talk about. The first photo of that area, there's no steam, a few hours later when the King passes by there's masses of it. Now have no idea of the date of Neil's second picture 120 but it would not surprise me if it's on the day of the King's visit.

I think that you're right Kaga, it's an exercise before the war but the map puts the location of the firemen in a space made by the demolition of the Vulcan Works. The Rex I'm talking about was on Corporation Street. The Victoria Works hugged the south bank of the Sherbourne as the Vulcan Works hugged the north but at that point the river was heading northeast putting it at an odd angle to the surrounding roads. The Rex was at a right angle to Corporation Street and thus at an acute angle to the river. A market/carpark was built on the same area as the Rex and that is shown in Neil's photo of the partly demolished building, which was after the war and before they covered over the river and built the Precinct. The angle of the two photographs are very similar. The Rex was twice the footprint of the Victoria Works. Now I'm prepared to debate this Kaga but only if you can pinpoint where you think it is on the Old Maps website.

Helen, yes happy to. I have already posted where I thought Matterson's forge was. Now you say The Rex was at right angles to Corporation St. Really? You also say the river ran into/under the Rex building. Really? So what shop in the Burges did the river run under, as I was taken in a fire tender in 1948 round the back way to do the same training as in the photo?

Yes, the Rex was at a right angle to Corporation Street (which wasn't straight). It's front faced the road but the bulk stretched back towards the river. The map shows that. No, the river ran at an angle to the back of the Rex but not underneath. Since the river Sherbourne wiggled about, where it came out at the Burges is slightly irrelevant. Where the firemen were would have been accessed from Corporation Street but the Victoria Works could be entered from either West Orchard or Cross Cheaping but the photo wasn't from those positions because the angle on the building would be wrong. Please pinpoint the location of the firemen on a map Kaga like I did on comment 121.

As per Helen's post above, does this map help?

Thanks Rob. It's a good map to demonstrate the transition in building sizes from the old to the modern. To my modern eyes the old city buildings would have seemed tiny.

Helen said the photographer was standing in Corporation St with the Rex to the right and the river running l-to-r, so wouldn't that make the river to be running from Hales St?

I didn't mention the flow direction of the river Kaga, I just pointed out the different features in the photo. Corporation Street was behind the photographer.

Helen At no time was I about to try and pin-point anything. I merely said I didn't agree with what you said - the thought of a photographer standing in Corporation St with the river behind him cascading down the street was just too much. And a photographer in Corporation St facing the rear of The Rex just impossible. But your pin-point is a good 300 yards south of Corporation St. If you entered the Burges from Hales St, about 300 yds up on the right was a small street that led round the back of the Wine Lodge to their car park and a small open space and the the river. Now the Rex only had about an eight year lifespan, and to me, the photo is before that, and to point the camera south takes the Rex out of the picture. Now I have what ever time I can grab, so I want them to be as friendly as I can make them, but arguable as hell, if you understand what I mean.

Hi Kaga. It's sometimes very hard to describe a location, which is why I try to include a map link and a view from Britain From Above so that readers can see what I see. I could just post the maps and images but I try to be sparing in breaking copyrights. I also want people to search the maps and aerial photos for themselves because there's always far more to be seen than I would ever post. Seriously, those sites are fascinating and as they say 'a picture paints a thousand words'. I still see stuff on those two sites that I've never noticed before and sometimes it answers questions I never knew I had. The same with old pictures. Once you're familiar with the main details, small things stand out. Like finding Tooby's the other day in one photo and linking it to a label 'Toby's' on another. Maps and B/W aerial images are one thing but you can fill in the colour and the other senses. You can say how it felt to practice with the hoses and then use them for real. But please, check where I'm indicating on the maps. Skip forward and backwards in time on those maps, before saying I or anyone else is wrong. We may not be describing it 100% because we assume that the maps/images will do a better job.

Hi Kaga, Helen did say "The building on the right is the back/side of the Rex cinema". It is certainly the side of it, that is definitely true - you are correct that you wouldn't see the rear from that position. I wonder if you mistyped when you said 300 yards? Did you mean 30 yards by any chance? I measured it on Google maps, and if you walked south 300 yards (274 metres) from the Wine Lodge at Corporation Street, you would be right in the middle of Broadgate. The entrance to the old street of West Orchard is only 180 yards along the Burges from Corporation Street. Helen's pinpoint (the red marker on the map in post 141) is, as you can see, right adjacent to the Rex Cinema, so it's probably only about 20 yards south of Corporation Street, certainly not 300!

Hi Rob Yes she did, but that's one of the things I disagreed about, we don't have a date of the photo as far as I know. Now, the Rex only had an eight year life span and several things make me think it was not in that span, and that's what I thought our debate was about. It's been a very long time since I was in Coventry, and I'm a bit old in the tooth to be anywhere near judging distances, I merely thought the photo was wrong. And you must think that 20 yards in the old days could have housed twenty people - and I'm not trying to pull people to pieces, I'm just trying to make people think of Coventry 90 years ago, as the area was then and not these modern times and ways. And this is the only way I know of explaining it. Look at the photo and tell me if that looks like the rear of Coventry's most modern and spruced up building in the thirties?

PS, your map is a 1950's map, and I doubt anything like a thirties or before map.

Kaga, the Old Maps site has maps from multiple years. The one that I linked to and Rob copied was for 1937. The next one is 1938 but at a less detailed scale. The one after that is 1950 and the Rex had gone. The building does look scruffy but a lot of fancy buildings do away from the main areas. Alternatively it may have been awaiting render and painting. As you indicate, the Rex wasn't around long. That spot was inside a building while the Vulcan Works still stood.