Hales Street

Spot on! By all means keep places with some merit. Hales Street is awful and Palmer Lane even worse. It's already an area for the undesirables, redeveloping it would hopefully clean it up. I would love to see it set up as a more permanent base for businesses like the street food sellers in Market Way. Coventry needs some vibrant areas to attract people in the evenings, as other cities have done. People should take a look at places such as the buzzing Harbourside development in Bristol to see what can be done with derelict and dreary areas. Create what people want and they will come.

I agree with that to a certain extent. However, if the new buildings mainly give access into Palmer Lane then it will be used more and hopefully with more people the less desirables will not hang around. But that depends on just how many use it - if use is sporadic it could be a muggers paradise? Difficult to know until it happens. My big issue with the design is how it focuses so heavily on Palmer Lane. I fear it will cut all economic activity along the far more prominent Hales St and these little shops will see even less trade, become even more rundown, and the city centre look even worse. I see hints of a couple of other city centre areas here. The first is the Belgrade Plaza development, with the frontages between the car park and the Theatre (probably sensibly) and the hotel entrance tucked around the back. However this has left Upper Well St with an almost faceless wall along it and you almost never see anyone using this stretch of road. Again this is a prominently visible route and gives an impression of the place being almost deserted at first glance. It seems another 'inward looking' development Coventry seems to excel at, going back to the Precinct etc of the 60's. The second is the cut through next to the library that leads towards the Co-op/Agers. Again, using this cuts footfall along the more major economic route of Smithford Way so the businesses along there struggle. For me the back/service routes like this should be closed off so that the more prominent routes get the business - it's not like we've got full occupancy and we need extra units. In this case the new developments could have had a nice 'private' communal south facing area.

This is another problem I have with it. Although the river isn't exactly impressive, water is without doubt a very desirable aspect in most developments. By enclosing it, this feature will actually seem more cut off. Like in the Phoenix Initiative there is a nice water feature in the middle but I doubt many people know of it as they rarely use the route - they need to be visible from the most prominent and well-used routes. Although too late now that the building is being constructed, I've always felt that the area would suit being opened up as a public space, being a node between Hales St/Corp St/Burges and Trinity Lane, utilising the natural feature of the river and edge of Bablake as the point of interest. You could have cafes/restaurants looking out across the space at the Old Grammar School and a window display in the Transport Museum, with the shabby shops in between demolished and replaced with a museum extension. It has the potential to be well-used not just because of it being a node but by virtue of it being visible from the bus station and proximity to the Transport Museum. Although the open bit of the river on the west side is quite a way up the Burges it would allow a multi-function purpose for outdoor seating for restaurants/cafes in the warmer months and maybe Xmas fares/food outlets in the colder months. Certainly more sensible than the awkward public space outside the transport museum anyway.

As has been said above it's not a loss of identity it's a change to it. If we'd had nothing but 'appreciation' for the history of Coventry from the start we'd not have the history of the watchmaking, bicycles, cars etc because we'd have never built the top-shops or factories due to an 'appreciation' of the dyeing and weaving trade. It will ultimately help create new chapters in the ongoing history of Coventry rather than it becoming a relic of times past. I think that is what is sometimes is forgotten on here - history is not just in the past. The here-and-now is the history of the future and I don't want that to be of a city rundown and stuck in the past. Coventry does have quite a remarkable amount of old buildings still considering, but as I've stated due to various reasons (predominantly the war and piecemeal post-war redevelopment but also some Victorian updating) these are largely spread out and thus rather unknown and neglected, which is why, where possible, I think it would be far better to be bring them together to create that historic impact that they just can't do as they are. Yes, in the past things have been knocked down and what has replaced them has not proven successful long-term, but that by no means means to say what was there previously would have fared better. In many cases it could likely have been even worse. But again this has happened many times over the course of time and the things that have been unsuccessful have been removed and replaced until you're left with a few good examples because all the rubbish has gone. The sparsity is what makes it impressive - if it's everywhere it just becomes part of the background. It is about finding that balance - enough of it to create an impression but not so much that it seems generic.

I shall reiterate the point that I am trying to make. I very much believe that the ''City Centre" has lost its identity and has become a mishmash of competing styles and designs. Where do you stop with this. There is so much out of place and doesn't fit, is architecturally out of date so the balance is already lost. If anything in Hales Street requires replacing its the eyesore modern buildings, with the rebuild made to complement the original buildings. Most of what has been created isn't related to requirements of changes in trade and manufacturing, it has been the want of the previous CCC over the last 70 years to modernise and an out with the old attitude. If there had been more consideration of the here and now and the future then maybe this discussion would not be taking place. A run down city is an economical issue, with the world financial trade of the modern world and mass chains I am not surprised in the least that a place such as Coventry has struggled. There are many points being made here that are maybe suitable in another thread or in fact another website. Reading back on what I have written, I too can see that I may have gotten off track and missed the point why I like to visit this place every day, read the comments of others and look at the pictures posted, and think about the many things that the city of Coventry has delighted in but also had to endure.

My sentiments exactly Gumnut. Just because we live the other side of the world does not mean we have 'lost the plot' and not care for the old city, but in a nutshell you cannot stop progress whatever direction it takes. All the best to you over there.

Thank you Dreamtime. Belonging there will always be the case, no matter where in the world you are. I really need to clarify the term I used in the previous post. I wrote that I feel that a lot of the city centre identity to the residents of Coventry has been lost, I never wrote "all". It's a place that struggles to be a shopping district now that large D.F.O's are available, it isn't a place of residence, and because of past failures is not a draw card for visitors. I don't have answers to give, there are larger minds than mine to figure that out, I'm just expressing my thoughts.

I have no desire to argue with anyone, but debate is healthy. But the point I will make it - what IS Coventry's identity? Is it as a medieval powerhouse? Is it as a major pre-industrial revolution cottage industry? Is it a pre-war industrial manufacturing boom town? Is it a post-war civic experiment? Is it a millennial university city? The truth is it is ALL of those things, and that is why we have this clash of styles. It shows a constantly evolving city and the rich diversity of it rather than a place that saw one growth spurt and then just slowly stagnated and died. Architecturally out of date - well arguably then the medieval stuff is the most out of date. That is not to say mistakes haven't been made, and some things have been imposed that should've maybe been thought through better, but again that is with hindsight. But this is not restricted to the modern or post-war era - things were imposed and plonked down even in medieval times against people's wishes or without due consideration of the consequences. But as I say over time it has either been removed or just become part of the fabric of the city centre and thus accepted. It's now 'quirky' or 'unique' when in reality it's more likely 'poor design'. If you could return in 100 years time you'd find people making exactly the same arguments about things you think don't fit because to the people in question they're just part of the city centre. If you look at the post war plans so much of it was never done that if it had you could argue that everything would be more coherent and we wouldn't have a clash of styles etc because it would've almost all been replaced. The argument is the same as you make, the only difference being what people consider is or should be the 'identity' of the city. For me, the city centre is constantly changing and long may it continue because that is what will ultimately keep this city alive.

I have no desire to argue with anyone! In itself it indicates that you are. It's just an opinion. Right or wrong in others eyes it's not an attack on your thoughts or opinions. I have not disagreed with a personal comment at all, I have only expressed my own. Debate is a good thing, there is room for improvement regarding that point.

Any info on the numbering of Hales Street? I'm looking for the original number 6, at the begining of the 20th century. The red fronted shop is now number 6 as far as I know. I've seen the later Opera House mentioned as number 4, with the size of it I wonder if it was 2 & 4 or was the school number 2?

Does this help?

That's great, thanks Narrowing it down, do you have the listing for 1906?

It doesn't help when Mr Spennell can't tell his left from his right!

. . . or tell his Smithfield from his Smithford